- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
A heatwave continues to grip large parts of Europe, with authorities in many countries issuing health warnings amid searing temperatures.
Southern Spain is the worst-affected region, with temperatures in the mid-40s Celsius recorded in Seville and neighbouring areas.
A new heat record for June of 46C was set on Saturday in the town of El Granado, according to Spain’s national weather service, which also said this month is on track to be the hottest June on record.
As this keeps happening I continue to wonder when Europe and the UK will finally realize how badly they need to air conditioning. The units are (or were in the past year or 3)b way more expensive there than here in America. I dunno about current costs. It’s worth it though, even if you only need it for like 1 month out of the year.
How badly we need AC?
How about “how badly we need to get our shit together to stop human caused climate change”?
We’re very aware in the UK but it’s not too easy. We have some the oldest housing stock in the world. We don’t have central air with no real way to retrofit so it would have to be one room at a time. Our windows aren’t designed to house those units I see in NY. We have to rely on very inefficient portable units so I only use it on the really hot days. Energy prices are still high after Russia’s invasion. People are adding proper units when extending but only the rich can really afford that.
Split heat pumps are very common in Southern Europe. Modern units have insane efficiency, in the order of 4 units of heat or cold per unit of energy expended, and can be installed almost anywhere, in contrast to central units. The only downside is that they don’t provide hot water.
Add to that, that all these old UK houses have about as much insulation as a cereal box.
I live in Spain, and since temperatures are now reaching 39°C in my area, I ordered two AC units for the most used rooms in my house (living room and bedroom).
With installation it costed 1300€. A months salary basically. In my area the cheapest unit with installation was 450€, but it didn’t look very reliable.
I ordered it 11 days ago, and I’m scheduled to receive it and installed either this week or the next. AC installers are oversaturated with orders this time of the year. It’s insane.
You can just say Europe.
Nope, UK is not part of Europe anymore ;)
Do you mean no longer part of the EU? Because for as far as I know the island is still geographically in Europe lol.
Debatable. They are an island next to Europe. But apart from that, you just stumbled across the joke.
The EU isn’t Europe.
That was the joke.
In France the government is helping people get Aircon by subsidising heatpumps, also way more carbon efficient than Gaz or fioul based central heating.
It depends on the kind of heatpumps, in a lot of cases the heatpump is installed to replace a boiler, reusing the radiators and hot water circulation already available.
Unfortunately in this case the heatpump cannot be used as AC.
Not as AC, but a reversible heat pump can use the heating system for cold water circulation.
It’s rather limited, because you run into condensation concerns, but it’s still a possibility. A place I used to work at did this. It wasn’t perfect, but took some of the edge off.
On the other hand reversible heatpumps work great with floor heating.
Having a cool floor during a heatwave is amazing, plus no noise,
How does this subsidy work? Asking for my dad, who lives in France.
They are trying to push people to heat pumps (basically air conditioners tech wise)
They are also moving towards building/efficiency regs that require completely sealed houses and forced air systems in new builds.
So new houses will effectively be required/encouraged to have an air con capable houses.
The old housing stock though? Oof. I’m on a private estate that even bans that kind of stuff!
You can get a grant to install heat pumps, but ONLY if they can’t be reversed and used as air conditioning.
Also, I’m keeping my combi-boiler until they literally stop pumping gas to homes. Fuck water tanks.
I guess that’s to stop people from using it to get air-con when it’s mean to help people move away from gas. A bit silly though.
…I suspect there are a few models that only need 1 part switched for it to be possible…
Looking further into it, the “heat pumps” we’ve been pushing seem just for the ones that heat water, and then pump that round your radiators/out your taps.
The exclusion is for anything that moves air.
Do you have a link for the exclusion bit?
I think this is the official bit.
https://www.gov.uk/apply-boiler-upgrade-scheme/what-you-can-get
It must replace an existing fossil fuel system, and you can’t be left with a hybrid system (e.g. heat source plus boiler)
Meaning it must heat water somewhere, using the heat pump. Can you even get a system that heats water and air? And would that be included in this scheme? Some guy on reddit says they’re excluded, he may be full of shit.
I’m assuming there’s a much more detailed guide than this for installers, full of technical jargon about what is and isn’t included, but I can’t find that.
I think it just requires you to have a heat pump for all your water and heating. There appears to be pumps that do both, (mentioned in this article) but that’s more research than I can get away with while ‘working’.
My living room is around 36 square meters and the cheapest AC unit for that area was 650 - 850 euros. You also have to pay a certified company to install it, which cost another 200 - 300 euros.
The median salary is like 900 euros, which makes it out of reach for a large portion of the population.
Is the median living room 36 square meters? Seems unfair to compare median salary with a rather big house/apartment.
Growing up our dining/living room was 24m2 and I could be cooled with a 200 euro portable AC.
Fair point.
We also have a 20 square meter study where we installed AC. The unit cost around 550 euros and installation was like 70 euros cheaper. Total cost was cheaper but still hard for a median family to support.
Most families use some sort of fan or cooling column but they are quite lackluster and only work in summer.
Why would they need more airco when many houses and apartments still don’t even have proper shutters for windows and many people still don’t know you should keep your windows closed during peak heat hours, many roofs still barely insulated and they turned all their yards and driveways into concrete and asphalt hellscapes. A nice adult tree in your yard does more than an airco, fight me.
Overall, I completely agree with this comment. But I live in the middle of the forest, completely surrounded by trees and when it hits 35c that air conditioning is very needed. Trees are nice but an air conditioner they are not.
I’m doing all of that have have good insulation, ground floor. Doesn’t help when the temperature never drops below 20°C for a week (and I literally got up at 5:00 when it was coldest to air out my flat).
So yeah, I’m getting an AC this summer.
There’s a huge difference in that between the UK and countries further to the south: for example, pretty much all dwellings in Portugal have outside window shutters whilst in the UK it’s incredibly rare (instead they have inside heavy courtains, so the light goes into the house and the INSIDE gets absorbed by transformed into heat by the courtains) but on the other hand housing insulation is generaly complete total crap in Portugal, but less so in the UK (still not at Scandinavia or Russian levels of efficiency, but way better than Portugal) so in Winter unless one uses massive amounts of electricity/gas for heating, it’s literally colder indoors in Portugal than in Britain.
At the very least both Portugal and Spain are much better adapted to higher temperatures than elsewhere in Europe, and that’s anchored on traditional techniques (such as outside window shutters, houses painted in light colors and the type of roofing used) rather than the brute-force energy-heavy techniques (such as heavy use of Aircon) so common in places like the US.
For new buildings that is already case. For older buildings there is limits to how well you can retrofit them with new heating/cooling/insulation systems. Lots of building are messed up, because changes to insulation and heating/cooling lead to humidity and mold or worse mushrooms.
Ik Dutch, and have airco in every room in the house that isnt a bathroom or toilet. It’s awesome. Also have 30+ solar panels so whenever I use the airco, it’s run on solar power.
I wonder what’s the cost for them to install one. I got mine installed and it cost around €350(rm1600 in my currency), everything included, for a japanese brand(Daikin). shouldn’t be too horribly expensive for european country, especially when people started to adopt it.
Edit: but honestly, i wonder how well aircond would work in 40°c+ temperature, it relies on pumping heat away from the room, and if outside is so hot it wouldn’t able to effectively cool the refrigerant. Still better than nothing.
Air conditioning works just like a refrigerator in that the cooling is accomplished by the compression and decompression of gas. The outside temperature has no effect on the ability of the unit to cool the inside space. Air conditioning just vents to outside, it doesnt use outside air. The same is true for a window unit as it is for a central system
to a point. It still relies on radiating the heat produced at the compression stage outside to the outside air. Due to how thermodynamics work this becomes less efficient or even impossible once the outside air approaches the same temperature as the compressed gas. Once the gas can’t cool down after the compressing step the ac starts to lose effectiveness fast
Bingo!
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And your suggestion is let them roast?
If it’s green energy it’s not really a huge problem.
Put some solar panels up too and you’re golden.
Ah yes green energies are gonna save us.
Anything but do away from the idea that we can just burn more juice to solve every of our problem innit?
Wow, joined 5 hours ago, already half the comments removed, and the rest full of hatespeech. Go outside, drink a beer or sth and calm down, bot.
You bring up a good point.
After reading some of the stuff Russia has pulled off (like the fake green protestors slashing tires in the UK), I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re actually one of those false actors created to keep left wing politics and policy unpopular.
If not, they’re certainly carrying the water for them completely.
You’re using a phone, which not only uses energy and petrochemicals to make but sometimes even slave labor.
“We’re doomed because of idiots like you lmao. How does it feel knowing you’re responsible for the end of humanity?”
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And 2:
•I also used a second hand phone until it couldn’t be repaired anymore.
•I avoid taking planes but very rarely, maybe every 4-5 years take one because even by plane my family lives about 20 hours away, since people still want me to visit them, which I’m getting the feeling might not be your case.
•Don’t drive, don’t even have the train or electric bus much, since I can walk/bike most everywhere I need.
•Don’t have A/C
•I live in Finland
•This whole posting and thread is about Spain, not the USA, so presumably most people talking about installing an A/C are in Spain or the EU, which makes sense since it seems nearly all of the USA has A/C already.
Then again, you’re a baby account made today meaning you’ve probably already been banned somewhere multiple times before for simply being an unlikeable asshole and this is a new alt for you.
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You know without quoting there’s no context right? Just makes you sound a bit mad being this off topic. Especially since the majority of Lemmy is against the Palestinian genocide.
They are now it’s trendy.
You think I forgot how it was in the worst days of the genocide?
Do tell, less than 1 day old Lemmy account.
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I should add a point 4:
You’re a privileged commentariat who lives somewhere that hasn’t been hit so hard by climate change yet to the point where A/C is needed for health reasons, and you lack the self awareness to know of that. That’s why you’re the person in the well.
You didn’t offer the person who needs A/C a better solution, like a heat pump; you didn’t ask if they use renewable energy (I don’t know of Spain but here in Finland we can pick what energy company we use, and me and my wife have one that is 100% renewable/nuclear); you assumed they weren’t from the EU.
That’s why you’re the person in the well. You never offered or discussed potential ways to improve things, or even if they need the A/C; you merely criticized someone who exists in society for partaking in society ie trying to survive the heat waves.
Lmao the american dude living in Finland and taking his 20 hours planes is calling me privileged.
You’re a first world idiot that cannot comprehend anything but burning more juice to solve all your problem
I grew up in El Salvador until I had to go to school, and then summers were in El Salvador. We traveled by bus. That is until the gang wars got too dangerous. My parents are from El Salvador and had to leave because of the civil war that the USA meddled in because the revolutionaries were “scary socialists”. At home we only spoke Spanish, and watched and listened to Spanish media like Univision and Sábado Gigante.
Español es mi primer lenguaje, that’s why the second half of my username is in Spanish (sal is salt in Spanish, lumi is snow in Finnish).
Growing up in poverty, most of my life without A/C, and from a time when plastic wasn’t as common because I’m older, and tech was expensive and uncommon, I’m pretty sure my life time pollution output has been lower than yours, too.
I’ve taken that long travel journey of Finland / USA only twice, once to move here, and the second time because I have family that actually cares about me to the point they bought my plane tickets that second time. I’m sorry you don’t know that feeling.
But go on, do keep speaking, letting any doubt about you being the fool be removed.
Oh, btw:
Literally makes you the guy in the well depicted as the asshole no one likes, especially considering there’s literally no other way to visit family.
What person who need AC you fucking idiot? I was talking to you and you live in Finland.
Unlock your sphincter bro you’re all tensed
You were talking about Eterra originally. I apologize, didn’t realize you had memory health issues as well.
Clearly not talking to me since I don’t have, or need, A/C. Since you may be geographically challenged, Finland is very very far north.