• njm1314@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    The National Guard of this country has murdered American citizens on numerous occasions in our country’s history without a peep about prosecution later on from anybody. Don’t expect it to change this time. And really don’t expect them not to fire. These Weekend Warriors love the idea of killing Americans. It’s what they dream of.

  • Pnut@lemm.ee
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    6 days ago

    Nazis are Nazis. They knew what they were doing from the get go. They were just too cowardly to say it out loud.

    Punch Nazis. Or they will punch you.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    The only reason such a rationalization was ever brought forward is because they were brought to face judgement by a group of powers seeking to enact some form of justice for the atrocities committed.

    IOW, “just following orders” will never be a defense offered if there’s nobody to put them on trial.

    It’s a huge assumption that there will be anyone to put those kind of people on trial in the US and dispense any meaningful justice at this point. Current dems won’t do anything. Current judges can’t seem to pass sentences that stick.

    • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Won’t or can’t. The dems are minorities in all branches. A bit late to be beating the blame game on the dems after they were voted out of literally all power.

      And the only judges who are doing anything right now is a trump and bush appointed judges in which are just facing appeals. So that’s not on the dems either.

      You really need to stop blaming dems for all the reps doing bad things.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        I didn’t blame the dems for doing bad things. I blame the dems for doing nothing, or doing ineffective things. Especially when they did have the opportunity to do so.

        Yeah, they can’t do anything now because they didn’t take advantage when they could.

        • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          So then by your own admission you do know they can’t do anything now. So why are you blaming the dems now? It can’t just be always the dems at fault even when the reps are clearly in the wrong here. It’s just a waste of energy and distraction at most from dealing with what is going on right now.

          • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            I don’t need to re-explain what I said.

            And I disagree with your forcing a binary choice to remove attention from the dems. I can be pissed at the dems/DNC for helping, or at least not more forcefully opposing, the events that lead us to this point AND deal with “what is going on right now.”

            • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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              5 days ago

              You’re not looking for solutions. You’re looking to blame and be helpless and a perpetual victim. That’s your choice and I won’t waste more of my own time on such a person who chooses to spend their time in such a way.

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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    6 days ago

    I will NOT thank you for your service, I will resist you and shame you to my final breath for letting the allure of guns and patriotism lead you into at best complacency towards fascism.

  • Fleur_@aussie.zone
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    7 days ago

    I mean we’re talking about the US here which explicitly reserves the right to invade the Netherlands if any of their soldiers end up in The Hague for any reason.

  • hogmomma@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Yes, it IS as cut and dry as that, but actually determining if those orders are, in fact, legal isnt. It shouldn’t matter who you ask or when, but, unfortunately, it does.

  • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    The British soldiers at the Boston Massacre and Nazi war criminals of the Holocaust had their day in court.

    That’s what due process is. Everyone -everyone - enemy or not, gets a trial. That’s how it should be, that’s how it needs to be, or there is no justice.

    That’s why “expedited removal” is nothing but fascism. No due process, no justice at all.

  • wpb@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    It is important to add that even though the US has committed atrocities, for decades, from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos through Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gaza; illegal invasion, torture, genocide, war crimes; nothing meaningful ever came from it. There has never been Nuremberg trial equivalent for the United States, and there never will be. Every single president since Eisenhower, every single one, no exceptions, has been a war criminal by the standards of the Nuremberg trials and the Tokyo tribunal, and not one of them ever spent even a day in court for it.

    There are no consequences for war crimes committed by Americans. None. Aside from 9/11, but the ones who died, the ones who suffered, were not the ones responsible for the atrocities committed by the US. So sure, “just following orders” isn’t a valid defense, but you won’t need one anyway.

    • jenesaisquoi@feddit.org
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      7 days ago

      Skipped right over killing 25% of the Korean population that just happened to be so unlucky to live in the northern half at the time, as is tradition. No one remembers the Korean war for some reason.

      • wpb@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        I remember, but pragmatism wins over factual correctness sometimes. If you’re trying to convince someone that American imperialism is bad, and they get a whiff of what they might misconstrue as being pro North Korean, they dismiss what you’re saying outright.

        I also didn’t mention Indonesia, Timor, Guatemala, Chile, Cuba, and so and and so forth. And that’s not because I don’t think America is responsible for truly gut wrenching things there (I think Guatemala is especially egregious), but because people aren’t as familiar with these as they are with the Vietnam War and the war on terror. And the latter two have the added benefit that it’s generally agreed upon by liberals (after the fact, of course, never during) that they were a bad thing.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        7 days ago

        It’s known as the forgotten war for a reason, mostly because it wasn’t as big as WW2 and not as much of a clusterfuck as Vietnam. For all the shit that happened it basically just returned to status quo, honestly out of all the non Korean participants it was most notable for the Chinese. For UN forces it was a test run and for the Soviets it was a decent area to test new post WW2 tech and dump some surplus.

    • AeonFelis@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      The Nuremberg trials did not happen because the Nazis were wrong. They happened because the Nazis lost the war.

  • troed@fedia.io
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    8 days ago

    While true, most of them are likely one paycheck away from having their family living in the streets. That’s a powerful deterrent against refusing orders that the US has somehow mastered. That too.

      • troed@fedia.io
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        8 days ago

        Of course, but most people will prioritize their own family members over others. It’s an explanation, not an argument against being moral.

        • SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          7 days ago

          My go-to in nuance situations that require clarification is “explanation is not justification”

      • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        Except it will. As will “I was just following orders”. It works for cops. It worked in Vietnam. Hell, it even worked for the majority of Nazi’s; only a small percentage actually faced reprocussions for their actions.

        Welcome to real history, where the good guys don’t always win and the bad guys don’t always lose.

  • Kirp123@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    The US literally sanctioned the ICC judges. There’s not gonna be a Nuremberg trial for them lol.

    • MNByChoice@midwest.social
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      7 days ago

      Could change rapidly. I doubt Nazi Germany started under the purview of the ICC. (I think ICC was created in response.)

      • ohulancutash@feddit.uk
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        7 days ago

        There was no jurisdiction at the time. The Nuremberg trials were essentially kangaroo courts with no solid basis in law, performed because the gravity of the Nazi crimes was so great something had to be done. As such some of the judges were uneasy about handing down death sentences, as many of the crimes they were charged with were not crimes in the Third Reich, and international law hadn’t developed sufficiently to take over.

        The ICC came around in the 1990s, partially in response to calls from those involved in the Nuremberg trials for provision for a more robust and legal process, that didn’t rely on conquest first.

  • paranoia@feddit.dk
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    8 days ago

    When a soldier did not follow orders in nazi Germany they were executed. Would you rather be executed now for treason or maybe not at all later?