Note that I’m not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him – my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the “evil transgenders” stereotype
Note that I’m not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him – my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the “evil transgenders” stereotype
You don’t shoot two mags into someone out of self defense and you don’t stab someone 14 times out of self defense. But hey, it’s not like she had committed knife crimes 5 times before that.
She cut in line, he yelled slurs, she spat, he punched and then she stabbed him to death. And then proceeded to tell people she would do it again and was glad he died. Yeah, you’re kind of a shitty person for this.
Punch the guy, stun gun the guy, pepper spray the guy, you have my blessing and support. You don’t fucking kill someone.
The entire media campaign surrounding this is also despicable: For one group, she is the living embodiment of the ebul trans people, who are all just men in disguise trying to molest kids, for another group she is a brave, yet innocent bean who should be totally acquitted. Both groups are morons.
IMHO, she should serve a long ass sentence.
Yeah the fact that she is transgender has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she murdered someone, the only reason the press is including that fact is to stir up drama, hate, and ad revenue. It’s pretty despicable, but I have come to expect nothing more from the press. There is no such thing as an honourable news reporter these days, just gossip columnists.
My read on it is that they’re intentionally cross wiring it to blur the issue and attach a negative colloquialism to trans people. This is part of how a group becomes considered untermensch by our illustriously imbecilic regime. If I was trans I would gtfo the country now, no joke. This is some goebbels-type shit, so you know it’s probably Steven Miller’s idea, that fucking psychotic dweeb
Aha. “cross wiring”. It’s not sexism or racism or a bigoted hate crime, it’s just “cross wiring”
Cross wiring, as in to, use preexisting hatred or fear of a subclass to apply it to another one. Such as fear of mentally I’ll murderers into fear of trans or hatred of pedophiles to attach it to multiple groups in the past years. It helps people to justify what should be immediately recognizable as sexism or racism or bigotry.
That feels easy reading comprehension and you are in a desire to be angry to avoid the obvious conotation to yell that people are not using words you like. Its not productive to you or others or conversation
It was self defense though, not murder. Seems like she just got carried away with defending herself instead of being killed. It’s a kill or be killed world out there.
You don’t get to claim self-defense in an altercation you started and escalated. Or I guess you can try, but you’re gonna have a bad time
That’s wild.
It doesn’t matter who started it, if you’re afraid for your life, I think you have the right to defend your life.
If you escalate it, you will eventually get into a point where you fear for your life, so then literally every conflict you can then claim self defense.
I think that’s what cops do.
And should we support cops for doing that?
Do you actually want to know what I actually think?
I work in a trauma ward. It’s not unusual to see people get stabbed dozens of times, whether it’s self defense or not. People who get stabbed don’t get dropped like a gun shot wound victim, they bleed out.
So more often or not if there’s a confrontation with a knife people will keep stabbing until the person stops being a threat, which can take a while.
Yeah it’s not like the movies, people don’t just fall over when they’re grazed by a blade or pistol-caliber bullet. If all I had was a knife to defend myself against an attacker I would choose “keep stabbing until they stop moving” even if that looks worse to juries. Better than being shot in the back trying to run.
Technically you aren’t allowed to stab until they stop moving, just until they are no longer a threat. Stab em in the leg and run. Self defence isn’t a license to kill it’s a way to not go to jail if killing was literally the option available.
Yeah she did a dick move then escalated into murder with 0 remorse. Life without parole.
Wait it’s self defense though, and not murder.
What people are trying to say, and that is clearly going way over your head, is that this was NOT self defense.
No need to be a dick. I get that you’re frustrated, and that’s okay. Being a dick, though, that’s on you.
But my point of being facetious is to point out the dishonesty or heavy bias in framing it as murder, when the discussion really is all about whether or not it was self defense.
People are loudly saying how punishment should be, or taking things out of context or loading the presentation emotionally with other circumstances. All of which are intellectually dishonest and jumping the gun. Everyone’s welcome to their opinions, but we all need to try to focus more on constructive discussion, rather than infighting over a news story because nobody can stay on the actual topic, resulting in everybody being frustrated and arguing about different things.
The subject is, “self defense or not?”
Obviously, you and I differ on our opinions, but we have also neither gone over all the evidence nor even discussed what evidence or suspicions we have. So saying your equally uniformed opinion is going over my head is not just rude and self centered, but it’s also… Potentially just wrong.
So in the theme of olive branches and keeping it mature and civil:
I say it could have been self defense because she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her who was throwing out hate speech.
You say it was not self defense because…?
No, he was smaller.
Not punishable by death in the land of the free last time i checked.
You’re right she was taller…
But after reading many articles, it still sounds like self defense to me. It sounds like two people got into a petty altercation, and hate speech amplified emotions greatly. I don’t know if you know, but trans women are VERY often victims of abuse and murder simply for being trans.
And going off the guy’s hate speech AND throwing the first punches, and that she gave him a final warning while supposedly backed into a corner, it sounds like she came out on top and went a little crazy over it.
Honestly, if I were in her situation and a guy cut in front of me and started calling me hate speech AND started attacking me, I would be both furious and terrified. I’m not nearly as abused as she was, but after going over what still feels like incomplete facts, I really don’t blame her. My issue lies with the quick condemnation voices of her, here, and the heavy bias it feels like it stems from.
Like I could very well be wrong, but judging by everybody who wants blood here being shockingly belligerent, I’m approaching with caution and skepticism.
Maybe you have a source of facts that I’m not aware of that you could share?
The same sources as everyone else.
She started it, she’s bigger than him, she escalated it, she drew a knife, she has priors with knife-related incidents, she showed no remorse. You trying to defend her seems like trans exceptionalism. Trans are people, so there are good trans people and bad trans people. You can guess which option prevails in these comments.
I saw no discussion of her being bigger than him, only that she was 6’5 in one article.
I saw no definitive evidence of who started it. In fact I saw lots of articles saying they didn’t know who started it.
I saw people claiming she has no remorse, but somebody who was afraid for their life and sick and tired of being hate crimed wouldn’t feel much remorse over deleting somebody to defend themselves. Could also be opposite performative.
She drew a knife after being back against a wall after being punched at least three times, and telling him not to go to her. Which he obviously did. That SCREAMS self defense.
Me trying to defend her could definitely seem like trans exceptionalism. But so could any dissent given to a trans person. Ive explained this previously, but I’ll say it again: my issue is with the condemning anger and belligerence here. Which to me, seems like anti-trans rhetoric and microaggressions. Which is why I doubted this at all in the first place. If she’s insane and did it in cold blood and unhinged, so be it, but the evidence and character judgements I’ve seen do not point to that at all, but rather that she was just a person like everybody else, and pushed really hard and decided to kill the person she was defending herself from. Which is the exact point of protecting people legally who are defending themselves.
And then on top of it, it’s a highly publicized story that’s basically about a scuffle gone wrong between two random ass people in a sandwich shop. They’re both nobodies. This is an obvious wedge story. Because if it was self defense or not, I think the greater interesting point is that so many people seem to be so passionate (belligerent) about it. It just FEELS so gross. Like… Is this a law community? Why are so many people up in arms about their anger being questioned? Did you know a postal worker? Are you falling prey to demonizing trans people? Do YOU have an agenda? Last I checked, doubting the optics of a case like this and questioning and looking for facts was a smart thing to do. We’re all on the same side here, of not wanting to be murdered or taken advantage or abused…
Like worst case, he was a violent transphobe who was angry and gonna hate crime her, or she was a drug addict looking for a fight and really wanted to just murder any person.
But that’s why I’m asking you for a source. Because yours obviously has different or more detail than the ones I’ve read.
Here, I’ll go first:
https://www.tumblr.com/elierlick/785185926826557440/a-trans-woman-jaia-cruz-was-just-sentenced-to-15?source=share
Yeah but this just makes her a shitty human, there was no need to mention they were trans.
To be fair: once self-defense “kicks in” (in any case, not just this one), one should empty two mags if it is what it takes to make the threat stop. or feel like it stopped.
That’s the thing about self defense, you don’t get to decide how much is too much, if you are on the receiving end. All you get to do is NOT make it something your victim decides to implement in the first place.
Imma be honest: if you reload after dumping the first mag into someone, it’s getting into manslaughter territory.
Self defense is also (at least in Germany, don’t know how it’s handled in the Land of the Castle Doctrine) about a measured response. Using a weapon after feeling your life is in danger: A-okay. Bashing someone’s skull in repeatedly after they stopped being a threat: not so okay. The police shooting an attacker three times in the chest: A-okay. Dumping two mags into someone: definitely not okay.
yeah most states have a “stopped being a threat” point; I posit it is probably common to see someone not used to fighting to not know when the threat really stops in addition to the adrenaline thing.
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this case for sure. but thats the point about initiation of “self defense.” you lose the choice after you make it go that far. tip: don’t fight.
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i don’t disagree. i was simply defending legitimate self defense.
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Holy shit she emptied two mags into him and then stabbed him 14 times and then claimed self defense? That’s actually insane.
No. She just stabbed him. I said that as an example.
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Think about all the transphobes who will now see trans people as violent and callous. If this has any effect, it’ll increase the likelihood of violent attacks.
Which in increase the likelihood of more sensationalist “news”…
Which will up the likelihood of self defense. Gotta defend myself against being murdered. Even if it means kill or be killed.
It’s almost like the media has twisted all of this to inspire infighting to distract from other problems. Like the incoming lawless fascism state that’s going to further twist all facts and reporting to use conformity to delete anything and anyone they don’t like or threatens their power.
If only transgender people killed everyone they interacted with, there wouldn’t be any transphobia /s
Grow up. She’s a murderer and deserves to rot in jail.
Next time they wont spit, they’ll escalate further ti avoid retaliation
Damn. I gotta up my self defense game then. She’s a paragon.