There have always been factions in the main parties. Obama was part of a wave of more progressive Democrats that pulled away from the moderate liberalism of Clinton.
There are also formal sub parties like the Blue Dog Democrats and the New Democrat Coalition, the us news media just doesn’t report on them the way European news does for parties.
Even AOC and “the squad” are considered a faction with followers and enemies. The fact that the media is focusing on her and de facto making her the face should be a pretty big signal to the other party leaders that they need to get their shit together or be swept aside. Hopefully they fall in line to help her.
The democrats will never drop their rabid anti gun stance. They will never stop pursuing full disarmament. Beto gave up the game in texas, he should have pretended to care about people’s right to bear arms. But the zealot couldnt contain his gleeful enthusiasm to see the working class disarmed. Times have not changed as we can see through David Hogg’s ascension in the party.
Not even a insurrection and blatant disregard for other civil liberties the democracts currently hold dear will shake them from this losing policy.
We live in the shitter multiverse. No one will protect us but ourselves. Not the justice system, not our constitution, not even the democratic party itself.
If you can’t see this now, given current and past events, there is no need to type any further.
lol obama was about as progressive as george w bush in fact he killed a lot more poor middle easterners than bush. he campaigned on a pile of lies he never planned to implement
That’s why I never believed in the rhetoric of “it’s too late to consider 3rd party!” before the elections. Here it is just 6 months later and “we don’t have time for that”. Is it disingenuous then to just say there will never be time for that, like it is being implied here?
edit: just saw your other comments, I hope your DNC-tea party plan works with some effect. It’s harder for those who have voted for decades for a party that just isn’t responsive to the citizens so we’ll see I suppose.
That’s why I never believed in the rhetoric of “it’s too late to consider 3rd party!” before the elections. Here it is just 6 months later and “we don’t have time for that”. Is it disingenuous then to just say there will never be time for that, like it is being implied here?
It takes years to get a new party off the ground and in a meaningful position to take federal offices at any significant rate. During that time, you are mostly helping your farthest opposition of the main parties win by splitting the vote.
This is literally why the Tea Party operated by internal change of the GOP and not by starting a third party. And love them or hate them, they were effective at shifting the GOP.
It takes years to get a new party off the ground and in a meaningful position to take federal offices at any significant rate.
Excuse me, but how the fuck do you know that? You say that like 3rd parties being created and taking federal offices happens all the time. We haven’t had a serious 3rd party, let alone one that takes federal office, for well over 100 years. Don’t pretend you know what it takes, because we haven’t even fucking tried. It’s uncharted water!
You say that like 3rd parties being created and taking federal offices happens all the time.
They aren’t, and that’s kinda the point. People grossly underestimate how hard it is to do this (pretending it’s some great unknown and not something that’s been tried and failed literally dozens of times), and what game theory regarding FPTP elections means for the rise of one.
We haven’t had a serious 3rd party, let alone one that takes federal office, for well over 100 years.
We had a few elected to Congress in the last hundred years, even if you don’t count ones who changed party at some point. Mostly Farmer-Labor Party between the late 20s and end of WW2. We also had a Conservative Party of New York candidate in Congress in the 70s. And a Libertarian if you do count people who convert while in office. Hell, Trump once tried to run for POTUS as a third party candidate in 2000 for the Reform Party, but failed miserably and didn’t win a single state during the primaries.
Don’t pretend you know what it takes, because we haven’t even fucking tried. It’s uncharted water!
How many parties do you think we have that are large enough they operate in multiple states and have ballot access right now? The answer is a dozen. All of which have hopes of eventually getting someone in federal office, you know aside from the Dems and GOP who already do that. Of those twelve, 9 ran a presidential candidate in 2024. You’ve probably only even heard of 4 of those at most (Harris, Trump, Stein and maybe Chase Oliver [Libertarian]).
What it takes at a minimum is getting a majority of a state or House district on board with you and willing to vote for you rather than a major party, knowing that if enough other people don’t buy in it’s going to let the candidate farthest from them win instead. If you’re pushing for POTUS, then it means getting about 78M people on board in the same way, distributed across most of the country.
Third parties running for federal office isn’t untested water, it’s just extremely difficult to succeed at. Again, that’s why the Tea Party operated as a reform movement within the GOP rather than being an actual third party - it let them hijack the political machinery of the party from within, instead of having to fight against it in a battle that would at most likely cause both to lose if it did anything at all. Literally, had the Tea Party been an actual third party then instead of gaining massive influence they would have at their most powerful caused Democrats to win by splitting the GOP vote.
My concern with this take is “what are we considering this effect to be?” If we are taking the average republican who wholly considers themselves to be “Conservative”, their party was overtaken by extremists who are the antithesis to what the goal of that meaning is.
I don’t want a “Blue Maga” which takes the party away from progressive policies in an attempt to drum up fanatical support “against the tyrannical reds” while in reality they continue destroying the democracy we have. An example is a new DNC who wishes to prosecute and deport those who are on the right (there are examples on this site of individuals who are “progressives” but think the “right” should all be rounded up).
When people say they want a “tea party” I think it’s way to vague. Talking about the “effectiveness” of how the GOP has been changed is just completely scary, since in reality it just became a mask off-authoritarian free for all. I don’t need a Corporatized DNC to decide they no longer need the decorum of piece-meal policy that helps citizens since they know everyone has no other choice (like what happened with the GOP).
Again, I really hope a “Left Tea Party” would cause the DNC to capitulate to progressive ideology, but that’s not what happened on the conservative side (as evident from the big beautiful bullshit-bill).
Would it though? I’m not convinced of that. We already know what the party should look and act like based on actual progressive parties and policies around the world (even some past actions in the states itself), we really just need a name to know it by for everyone to get behind.
It’s the whole problem-solution thing, doesn’t matter what the name of the website or company is, we just need something to step in and fill that gap.
You’re not really disagreeing. AOC is perceived as the face of the democratic party and it’s true. She’s at least offering consistent resistance while the feckless leadership of the party does nothing but line their pockets and ensure 100 percent unconditional support of Israel to the determient of all else.
I don’t even disagree with your conclusions necessary, if it’s impossible to dislodge Pelosi and Schumer. But building a party from scratch is really fucking hard. Hijacking one might be easier.
They’re going to stay there making bank off of insider trading until they’re so ancient someone accidentally walks through and disperses the dust cloud known as Pelosi, and they finally decide they have enough money to reach supply-side Jesus.
Just insider trading? Those super pacs are the fucking Democrats and Republicans at this point. Greed itself is our new overlord, business ethics are dead and rotting.
That’s not how America works. Only Democrats and Republicans can actually get elected at the level AOC plays at, because the electoral college only recognizes Democrats and Republicans.
The Whigs are still on the ballot then, right? Since no new parties are ever made, and third parties can never win, it’s still Democratic-Republicans vs the Whigs in 2025, clearly.
If I can’t laugh about something maddening, I’ll go even crazier. I already have 4 mental health issues, I don’t need to add more. My plate is full and I’m low on spoons.
I hear you, friend. I daresay too many share the experience. I’ve certainly been there, before, and I am in full accord. Make merry where we can, it lightens the load for a moment. Wishing you the best.
You’re right. We need to get real. Those who support Democrats are just throwing their votes away. At this point, the Democratic Party has proven itself utterly incapable of winning a national election. Voting for Democrats is throwing your vote away. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for a Republican. We need to focus on real political parties like the Working Families Party that actually have a vision that they’re trying to fight for. Democrats don’t believe in anything. Democrats don’t even care about winning elections. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for MAGA. Centrists may not like voting for a progressive candidate, but they need to get over themselves. If centrists want to vote for Democrats, they’re choosing Fascism over Democracy.
Disagree. The Democrats dont know who they are anymore. Pelosi and the old Democrats have got to go.
AOC should just make a new party.
No, we don’t have time for that. We just have to do a tea party on the Democratic party… Which is what she’s been doing
They do have to go, but we’re keeping the house and the dog
The Tea Party of the Left is what we needed back in the Obama days, better late than never.
There have always been factions in the main parties. Obama was part of a wave of more progressive Democrats that pulled away from the moderate liberalism of Clinton.
There are also formal sub parties like the Blue Dog Democrats and the New Democrat Coalition, the us news media just doesn’t report on them the way European news does for parties.
Even AOC and “the squad” are considered a faction with followers and enemies. The fact that the media is focusing on her and de facto making her the face should be a pretty big signal to the other party leaders that they need to get their shit together or be swept aside. Hopefully they fall in line to help her.
Sadly my expectations for the Democrats is that they will ignore every red flag on their way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I live in Texas, I know the struggle, trust me.
The democrats will never drop their rabid anti gun stance. They will never stop pursuing full disarmament. Beto gave up the game in texas, he should have pretended to care about people’s right to bear arms. But the zealot couldnt contain his gleeful enthusiasm to see the working class disarmed. Times have not changed as we can see through David Hogg’s ascension in the party.
Not even a insurrection and blatant disregard for other civil liberties the democracts currently hold dear will shake them from this losing policy.
We live in the shitter multiverse. No one will protect us but ourselves. Not the justice system, not our constitution, not even the democratic party itself.
If you can’t see this now, given current and past events, there is no need to type any further.
SocialistRA.org
It’s almost like 2 political parties is insufficient representing the people.
With state level electoral reform, we can ensure equal access to our electoral process for all political parties willing to run.
Electoral Reform Videos
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems
STAR voting
Alternative vote
Ranked Choice voting
Range Voting
Single Transferable Vote
Mixed Member Proportional representation
lol obama was about as progressive as george w bush in fact he killed a lot more poor middle easterners than bush. he campaigned on a pile of lies he never planned to implement
That’s why I never believed in the rhetoric of “it’s too late to consider 3rd party!” before the elections. Here it is just 6 months later and “we don’t have time for that”. Is it disingenuous then to just say there will never be time for that, like it is being implied here?
edit: just saw your other comments, I hope your DNC-tea party plan works with some effect. It’s harder for those who have voted for decades for a party that just isn’t responsive to the citizens so we’ll see I suppose.
It takes years to get a new party off the ground and in a meaningful position to take federal offices at any significant rate. During that time, you are mostly helping your farthest opposition of the main parties win by splitting the vote.
This is literally why the Tea Party operated by internal change of the GOP and not by starting a third party. And love them or hate them, they were effective at shifting the GOP.
Excuse me, but how the fuck do you know that? You say that like 3rd parties being created and taking federal offices happens all the time. We haven’t had a serious 3rd party, let alone one that takes federal office, for well over 100 years. Don’t pretend you know what it takes, because we haven’t even fucking tried. It’s uncharted water!
They aren’t, and that’s kinda the point. People grossly underestimate how hard it is to do this (pretending it’s some great unknown and not something that’s been tried and failed literally dozens of times), and what game theory regarding FPTP elections means for the rise of one.
We had a few elected to Congress in the last hundred years, even if you don’t count ones who changed party at some point. Mostly Farmer-Labor Party between the late 20s and end of WW2. We also had a Conservative Party of New York candidate in Congress in the 70s. And a Libertarian if you do count people who convert while in office. Hell, Trump once tried to run for POTUS as a third party candidate in 2000 for the Reform Party, but failed miserably and didn’t win a single state during the primaries.
How many parties do you think we have that are large enough they operate in multiple states and have ballot access right now? The answer is a dozen. All of which have hopes of eventually getting someone in federal office, you know aside from the Dems and GOP who already do that. Of those twelve, 9 ran a presidential candidate in 2024. You’ve probably only even heard of 4 of those at most (Harris, Trump, Stein and maybe Chase Oliver [Libertarian]).
What it takes at a minimum is getting a majority of a state or House district on board with you and willing to vote for you rather than a major party, knowing that if enough other people don’t buy in it’s going to let the candidate farthest from them win instead. If you’re pushing for POTUS, then it means getting about 78M people on board in the same way, distributed across most of the country.
Third parties running for federal office isn’t untested water, it’s just extremely difficult to succeed at. Again, that’s why the Tea Party operated as a reform movement within the GOP rather than being an actual third party - it let them hijack the political machinery of the party from within, instead of having to fight against it in a battle that would at most likely cause both to lose if it did anything at all. Literally, had the Tea Party been an actual third party then instead of gaining massive influence they would have at their most powerful caused Democrats to win by splitting the GOP vote.
My concern with this take is “what are we considering this effect to be?” If we are taking the average republican who wholly considers themselves to be “Conservative”, their party was overtaken by extremists who are the antithesis to what the goal of that meaning is.
I don’t want a “Blue Maga” which takes the party away from progressive policies in an attempt to drum up fanatical support “against the tyrannical reds” while in reality they continue destroying the democracy we have. An example is a new DNC who wishes to prosecute and deport those who are on the right (there are examples on this site of individuals who are “progressives” but think the “right” should all be rounded up).
When people say they want a “tea party” I think it’s way to vague. Talking about the “effectiveness” of how the GOP has been changed is just completely scary, since in reality it just became a mask off-authoritarian free for all. I don’t need a Corporatized DNC to decide they no longer need the decorum of piece-meal policy that helps citizens since they know everyone has no other choice (like what happened with the GOP).
Again, I really hope a “Left Tea Party” would cause the DNC to capitulate to progressive ideology, but that’s not what happened on the conservative side (as evident from the big beautiful bullshit-bill).
edit: taking=talking, fixed a confusing sentence
It would take many decades for a new party to get the recognition.
Most voters probably think Obama is still president.
Would it though? I’m not convinced of that. We already know what the party should look and act like based on actual progressive parties and policies around the world (even some past actions in the states itself), we really just need a name to know it by for everyone to get behind.
It’s the whole problem-solution thing, doesn’t matter what the name of the website or company is, we just need something to step in and fill that gap.
You might not have noticed my point.
I think the vaaast majority of voters just vote the way they always have. They’re just not engaged. There’s no consideration of who to vote for.
I honestly think it would take either a revolution, or several decades before any other party has a chance.
Sadly many of them didn’t know Kamela was even running until they couldn’t find Biden’s name on the polls come Election Night.
You’re not really disagreeing. AOC is perceived as the face of the democratic party and it’s true. She’s at least offering consistent resistance while the feckless leadership of the party does nothing but line their pockets and ensure 100 percent unconditional support of Israel to the determient of all else.
I don’t even disagree with your conclusions necessary, if it’s impossible to dislodge Pelosi and Schumer. But building a party from scratch is really fucking hard. Hijacking one might be easier.
They’re going to stay there making bank off of insider trading until they’re so ancient someone accidentally walks through and disperses the dust cloud known as Pelosi, and they finally decide they have enough money to reach supply-side Jesus.
Just insider trading? Those super pacs are the fucking Democrats and Republicans at this point. Greed itself is our new overlord, business ethics are dead and rotting.
they always have been. people have been pointing out how dems and republicans are two arms of the business party for a hundred years
State level electoral reform, allowing more then two political parties to be viable.
“MAKE A NEW PARTY!11111!!1”
That’s not how America works. Only Democrats and Republicans can actually get elected at the level AOC plays at, because the electoral college only recognizes Democrats and Republicans.
The Whigs are still on the ballot then, right? Since no new parties are ever made, and third parties can never win, it’s still Democratic-Republicans vs the Whigs in 2025, clearly.
That made me chuckle.
Thank you! :3
Thank you. A little mirth where we can find it is mandatory!
If I can’t laugh about something maddening, I’ll go even crazier. I already have 4 mental health issues, I don’t need to add more. My plate is full and I’m low on spoons.
I hear you, friend. I daresay too many share the experience. I’ve certainly been there, before, and I am in full accord. Make merry where we can, it lightens the load for a moment. Wishing you the best.
You as well, stay safe and drink plenty of water.
You’re right. We need to get real. Those who support Democrats are just throwing their votes away. At this point, the Democratic Party has proven itself utterly incapable of winning a national election. Voting for Democrats is throwing your vote away. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for a Republican. We need to focus on real political parties like the Working Families Party that actually have a vision that they’re trying to fight for. Democrats don’t believe in anything. Democrats don’t even care about winning elections. A vote for a Democrat is a vote for MAGA. Centrists may not like voting for a progressive candidate, but they need to get over themselves. If centrists want to vote for Democrats, they’re choosing Fascism over Democracy.
At this juncture, a complete reboot seems necessary. The Constitution is old and more cumbersome than reasonable. We can do better.
Potentially with local elections first. Build it up from the ground up.
Not like the Green Party and Jill Stein’s goofy ass.