Specifically Marilyn Manson and Kanye West. Am I overthinking this?
Yup. It’s very easy indeed.
Pirate the fuck out of their stuff, enjoy, repeat.
Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.
Just pirate their music. Don’t stream it, don’t go to their concerts, don’t buy and wear their merch. As long as you’re not financially contributing to them then I don’t think there’s any issue.
It also, like CaptainPedantic said, matters what they’re singing about. If the artist has shitty views but doesn’t present them in their music that’s one thing but there’s no ethical way to listen to something called Heil Hitler.
Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.
I often bring up Death of the Artist, but with books and music I have an especially hard time. Authors, in particular, struggle to keep their works views and politics out of their books; the same is true with musicians, perhaps to a lesser extent.
It does make me worry about the subconscious influences of listening or reading them.
I think that if “death of the artist” was applicable to any piece of art, then the art would therefore be the equivalent of AI art.
Art by it’s very nature is influenced by someone’s views and beliefs.
The only possible exception is that some artists may drastically change their views later and even denounce previous work.
Edit: I also think it’s worth pointing out that you can like the way someone represents/expresses their viewpoints even if you disagree with said viewpoints, you just have to be aware of the viewpoints presence and potential effects.
I agree; I do think, especially with fiction and reading for leisure, that it’s easy to forget about the author’s beliefs. And often they’re expressed subtly, and… well, when I first read Ender’s Game, I had no idea who OSC was, much less his religious and political beliefs.
Reading Ayn Rand is easy: her writing is unapologetically blatant; it’s like reading those Christian comics where all of the Evil Characters are drawn so over-the-top that there’s no question. But I know my political beliefs today were influenced by my reading as a youth, and I know that I had no idea I was ingesting and being influenced by it at the time.
I think there’s a Dunning-Kruger effect for propaganda, as there is with torture. Many people believe they could withstand torture, or concerted brainwashing, or recognize and be uninfluenced by propaganda, whereas almost nobody can.
You can still stream it; just use a modded app like YouTube Music ReVanced to block ads and the artist’s record label won’t get a penny from you.
(Unless of course Google pays royalties by view count rather than ad revenue. Not entirely sure how that works. Just wanted to point out that YTM ReVanced is a thing)
The earthworm considers the hawk to be vile.
The hawk is a terrible digger and crawler. The hawk can’t appreciate composted vegetable scraps. Those big flappy wings and dangling claws, so ugly.
My point is, the world is large and you are small. So be humble, you are probably wrong about everything.
Well there is enjoying an artists music and there is supporting an artist and defending them. But you have to decide when to cut off an, “abusive relationship”. I can hold a person and artist in separate spaces. A love a lot of music, literature, art that was created by terrible people but try and avoid giving those people my attention and money. Also don’t get caught up in tabloid crap, someone’s mistakes caught on camera or tweeted and they later regret is not the same as a horrible person repeatedly hurting others. Media is paid by anger.
The bigger problem with Rowling is how she rubs it in everyone’s face that any money going towards her is spent on hate speech/groups.
The artist is smarter than you.
Dont support them by buying their stuff. Just pirate their music. For me personally, i dont follow artist in anyway shape or form. I have bigger problem to worry about. I just listen to songs i like and go on with my day.
The most politically incorrect truth is this: People are not good or bad, individual people do a variety of good and bad things. Mister Rogers told his gay friend to stay in the closet and marry a woman. Hitler banned animal cruelty. We don’t like to talk about these things, but it’s a true principle and a useful one to live by.
It’s not politically incorrect at all. ‘Good’ and ‘bad’ are just too simplistic ways to interpret our complex world. It’s idealistic to try and put people in such simple categories, and it leads to a delutional worldview.
The only ‘politically incorrect’ part is that some people might jump down your throat for pointing out things about Hitler which weren’t terrible, because unfortunately neo-Nazis abuse this rhetoric as a wolfwhistle or for whitewashing. But as long as you’re clearly not doing that, there’s nothing politically incorrect with saying Hitler drank water.
I mean… technically, yes, we all do good and bad stuff.
But you can’t say Hitler was a good person just because he was against animal cruelty. I don’t think any person out there is cartoonishly evil to a point they never did anything good - that doesn’t make those evil persons not evil.
Do a hecking piracy. Problem solved.
Ripping stuff from YouTube for personal use isn’t even illegal.
Yes. It’s called seperating the artist from the art.
Yes, but there is a line at which point the art can no longer be seen.
For example, I can’t listen to the lost prophets any more.
I’d say it depends on WHY you like the art. Does it tie into the toxic or reprehensible traits of the artist? Was the artist trying to send a toxic or reprehensible message with this art?
If not, then it’s just a matter of ensuring that your enjoyment of the art doesn’t translate into support for the artist. Or, at least, that it doesn’t cross your personal line of support for the artist.
So, for example, does the Kanye music you like have nazi themes or messaging? Far as I’m aware, no, the nazi-ism is just his newest shit, so you’re probably fine as long as you’re not streaming from Spotify or YouTube, or otherwise giving him revenue.
Very curious how old-time Kanye fans feel haha
Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.
However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don’t listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).
Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of ‘conspicuous consumption’, one of many ways our actions become ‘Word of Mouth’ advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)
I always assume most popular artists in general are horrible people, so yeah…
Sure. Just don’t pay. I listen to some very questionable or morally disgusting songs because I like the music. And I personally never care for the author’s life story. I don’t ask who builds my car either.
What’s wrong with Marilyn Manson that wasn’t 20 years ago?
