If I am from the Russian establishment, I would totally give up Sweden and Finland neutrality for Ukraine, it is not like Sweden and Finland were neutral at that point anyways. However, militarily speaking Ukraine is far more vital for Russia security. All multiple invasion attempts from Western powers to Russia were through Ukraine for a reason; one can more large amounts of troops and equipment overnight; try that through Finland’s mountainous forests.
Finland though, surprised me, 80 years of neutrality that allowed Finland to prosper like it never did in history and become the envy of the world, and now, the Finns decided to give it up with almost no debate. It is like Singapore now decides to join militarily fully with US and break all links with China… I have a feeling Asians will be far more pragmatic than the Finns and Swedes.
I wonder if there was a entire mediated apparatus gave then that impression!
Finland lost 1/3 of its territory to Russia so they, more than anyone knew the Russia threat. Now, they found that the the main drive for Russia conquest in their lands was mostly for security, not land. Once Finland gave up and reasured Moscow of not any military alliance with the West in the 1940s, they found amazing prosperity ever since, even when the Soviets were in plenty of militaristic campaigns abroad, nothing compared with today. Now is not different, now I mean, until Finland joined NATO. For first time in close to a century, the border with Finland is permanently closed and heavily militarized and Russian missiles pointing at the Scandinavian country. Is that a win?
It may not be fair, it is not, but countries like Cuba, Ukraine, Finland, Singapore, Switzerland, Andorra, etc should evaluate pragmatically if is best to keep neutrality (and have a a strong national defense capable of giving a fight, even if not capable of wining). or join an alliance. Singapore, Switzerland and till recently Finland choose right. Cuba, Ukraine and now Finland choose what they choose and now they pay the lack of pragmatism.
For Putin Ukraine, as a divided country it was, it was fine as independent since its Russian speakers would never allow a constitutional change to join NATO. However, after the western fomented coup, and millions of Ukrainians in the East desposesed from vote ever since was what made Moscow intervene. It was Afghanistan’s CIA playbook of the late 70s all over again.
You’re an even better western propagandist than you must think I am. You say the west basically forced putin’s hand in getting vast quantities of soldiers and soviet vehicles blown up in disorganized pushes, thus making Russia infinitely more vulnerable than it was prior to 2022? Not to mention…
western fomented coup
Support for joining the EU was already high. Yanukovych won the 2010 election promising closer economic ties to the EU. His sudden refusal to sign a trade agreement resulted in protests. Violent crackdown on protests resulted in revolution. For you to believe the west caused this, you would have to believe they psyop’d 70+% of the Ukrainian population into leaning towards the EU, then somehow convinced the Russian puppet to lie to get elected, then set off the aforementioned events.
If I am from the Russian establishment, I would totally give up Sweden and Finland neutrality for Ukraine, it is not like Sweden and Finland were neutral at that point anyways. However, militarily speaking Ukraine is far more vital for Russia security. All multiple invasion attempts from Western powers to Russia were through Ukraine for a reason; one can more large amounts of troops and equipment overnight; try that through Finland’s mountainous forests.
Finland though, surprised me, 80 years of neutrality that allowed Finland to prosper like it never did in history and become the envy of the world, and now, the Finns decided to give it up with almost no debate. It is like Singapore now decides to join militarily fully with US and break all links with China… I have a feeling Asians will be far more pragmatic than the Finns and Swedes.
I wonder if there was any event that make them worried about being invaded.
I wonder if there was a entire mediated apparatus gave then that impression!
Finland lost 1/3 of its territory to Russia so they, more than anyone knew the Russia threat. Now, they found that the the main drive for Russia conquest in their lands was mostly for security, not land. Once Finland gave up and reasured Moscow of not any military alliance with the West in the 1940s, they found amazing prosperity ever since, even when the Soviets were in plenty of militaristic campaigns abroad, nothing compared with today. Now is not different, now I mean, until Finland joined NATO. For first time in close to a century, the border with Finland is permanently closed and heavily militarized and Russian missiles pointing at the Scandinavian country. Is that a win?
It may not be fair, it is not, but countries like Cuba, Ukraine, Finland, Singapore, Switzerland, Andorra, etc should evaluate pragmatically if is best to keep neutrality (and have a a strong national defense capable of giving a fight, even if not capable of wining). or join an alliance. Singapore, Switzerland and till recently Finland choose right. Cuba, Ukraine and now Finland choose what they choose and now they pay the lack of pragmatism.
For Putin Ukraine, as a divided country it was, it was fine as independent since its Russian speakers would never allow a constitutional change to join NATO. However, after the western fomented coup, and millions of Ukrainians in the East desposesed from vote ever since was what made Moscow intervene. It was Afghanistan’s CIA playbook of the late 70s all over again.
You’re an even better western propagandist than you must think I am. You say the west basically forced putin’s hand in getting vast quantities of soldiers and soviet vehicles blown up in disorganized pushes, thus making Russia infinitely more vulnerable than it was prior to 2022? Not to mention…
Support for joining the EU was already high. Yanukovych won the 2010 election promising closer economic ties to the EU. His sudden refusal to sign a trade agreement resulted in protests. Violent crackdown on protests resulted in revolution. For you to believe the west caused this, you would have to believe they psyop’d 70+% of the Ukrainian population into leaning towards the EU, then somehow convinced the Russian puppet to lie to get elected, then set off the aforementioned events.