I’m not sure what you think destabilizing means, but to me, having an angry state with nuclear weapons on my doorstep does not sound like a very stable situation.
I know, that’s what I’m saying, expanding NATO destabilized the region. And we knew that this would happen: see the quotes in my earlier post. These quotes were from years and years before even the invasion of crimes. They predicted more than a decade before that if we were to expand NATO further east in the direction of a nuclear armed rogue state, then we would be jeopardizing the lives of countless innocent civilians in the region. And these weren’t like some obscure off hand remarks either; this was common knowledge among foreign policy experts at the time.
Is it nice that there is a nuclear armed hyper capitalist stare sitting on the border of Ukraine? No, it sucks. But the way to deal with that is not by flipping of the Russians, slapping a big target on the back of Ukraine, and then running away. And this is exactly what we did by expanding NATO (again, see the Biden and Kennan quotes) and pretending that we were considering letting Ukraine join NATO. We failed them, over and over.
A country that is threatening with the use of nuclear missiles is never a stable situation. I don’t think that’s a good argument to avoid protecting vulnerable states from those countries.
Suppose you sit down next to a hardened criminal. Tough guy, unstable, face tattoos, MS-13 photoshopped on his knuckles, the works. Not an ideal situation, not very stable.
In comes Uncle Sam, telling the criminal “hey, criminal! Realitätsverlust thinks your mother is a hooker, and says they will kill your first-born son” and so on and so forth. I would argue (and so would Biden, and so would Kennan, and so would other foreign policy experts) that the situation is now even less stable.
Now, if the criminal gets up and punches you, they are completely in the wrong, and should be locked up, this goes without saying. But you cannot convince me that after all is said and done you wouldn’t be asking Uncle Sam what the fuck he was thinking aggravating the criminal like that on your behalf.
You fail to see something very obvious - that criminal might still kill me on a whim, because he feels like it. However, if uncle sam comes and points a loaded gun at the guy at any given time, I’m feeling a lot more safe because the guy might be more angry, but he doesn’t want to die.
What was said in 1997 is irrelevant in 2025 - russia was a different country back then. That was before the second chechen war, the invasion of georgia, the bombing of syria and the war against the ukraine. I’m pretty sure both parties would say something differnt these days.
Now, if the criminal gets up and punches you, they are completely in the wrong, and should be locked up, this goes without saying. But you cannot convince me that after all is said and done you wouldn’t be asking Uncle Sam what the fuck he was thinking aggravating the criminal like that on your behalf.
That’s you not ‘just relaying the message’.
Plus, I think “defence” pact is a bit much given what NATO has done in Yugoslavia.
I’m not sure what you think destabilizing means, but to me, having an angry state with nuclear weapons on my doorstep does not sound like a very stable situation.
They have been at war for 3 years. Nothing about the situation is stable.
In fact, letting Ukraine join NATO would bring stability, since that would prevent Putin from invading again.
But Putin doesn’t want that, because Putin wants to invade Ukraine even more.
I know, that’s what I’m saying, expanding NATO destabilized the region. And we knew that this would happen: see the quotes in my earlier post. These quotes were from years and years before even the invasion of crimes. They predicted more than a decade before that if we were to expand NATO further east in the direction of a nuclear armed rogue state, then we would be jeopardizing the lives of countless innocent civilians in the region. And these weren’t like some obscure off hand remarks either; this was common knowledge among foreign policy experts at the time.
Is it nice that there is a nuclear armed hyper capitalist stare sitting on the border of Ukraine? No, it sucks. But the way to deal with that is not by flipping of the Russians, slapping a big target on the back of Ukraine, and then running away. And this is exactly what we did by expanding NATO (again, see the Biden and Kennan quotes) and pretending that we were considering letting Ukraine join NATO. We failed them, over and over.
A country that is threatening with the use of nuclear missiles is never a stable situation. I don’t think that’s a good argument to avoid protecting vulnerable states from those countries.
Suppose you sit down next to a hardened criminal. Tough guy, unstable, face tattoos, MS-13 photoshopped on his knuckles, the works. Not an ideal situation, not very stable.
In comes Uncle Sam, telling the criminal “hey, criminal! Realitätsverlust thinks your mother is a hooker, and says they will kill your first-born son” and so on and so forth. I would argue (and so would Biden, and so would Kennan, and so would other foreign policy experts) that the situation is now even less stable.
Now, if the criminal gets up and punches you, they are completely in the wrong, and should be locked up, this goes without saying. But you cannot convince me that after all is said and done you wouldn’t be asking Uncle Sam what the fuck he was thinking aggravating the criminal like that on your behalf.
You fail to see something very obvious - that criminal might still kill me on a whim, because he feels like it. However, if uncle sam comes and points a loaded gun at the guy at any given time, I’m feeling a lot more safe because the guy might be more angry, but he doesn’t want to die.
What was said in 1997 is irrelevant in 2025 - russia was a different country back then. That was before the second chechen war, the invasion of georgia, the bombing of syria and the war against the ukraine. I’m pretty sure both parties would say something differnt these days.
“Proposing that a country join a defence pact only activated in case of an attack on the country is aggravating any potential aggressors”
Jesus Christ.
“Cartels murdering people in your town? Just don’t talk to the cops, that’s how you stay safe.”
Hey man, take it up with Biden, I’m just relaying the message. Plus, I think “defence” pact is a bit much given what NATO has done in Yugoslavia.
That’s you not ‘just relaying the message’.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Walk me through it. Explain to me why bombing Yugoslavia was ok.
Genocide is bad, even when done by Russian allies.
Radical, I know.