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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by indigosfindings:
imagine if someone just like started addressing you as Dipshit, like youre just talking about your day & they say “no way Dipshit, that’s crazy.” and then maybe you say to them that you would prefer not to be addressed as Dipshit & their response is “well in my major metropolitan area ‘Dipshit’ is not considered an insult. im not saying i think youre stupid when i call you Dipshit, i call my mom dipshit all the time” so you say Thats cool but please dont call Me that. and then they just repeat that it’s something they say daily, they call all of their best friends & lovers dipshits & are called dipshit in return. “my grandma calls me dipshit at the dinner table, it doesnt mean anything.” so you say Yes i understand that your friends & grandma arent bothered by being called Dipshit but i am, & i would prefer if you didnt address me as that. and they say “it’s literally not possible for me to stop calling you dipshit, and it’s not reasonable for you to ask me to, dipshit.” anyway this post is about nothing in particular
one more report and I’m locking this whole mf thread
I understand this is a controversial topic but y’all need to behave your damn selves
Please review this educational material for additional instruction if you are having difficulty with the conceptGenerally being nice to other people is a good thing. It makes the world a nicer place for everyone. And in cases like this, it seems like it is pretty easy to be nice - just don’t call that person ‘dipshit’. That just seems like a very low-cost way to show the person that you respect them.
I mean just get over yourself right. Forcing someone to change their authentic self because it makes you uncomfortable seems antithetical to the trans experience.
In this case their authentic self is an asshole, so asking them to not be an asshole just makes the world a better place. Its the same as saying that they have to tolerate the intolerance of the other person. Intolerance never has to be tolerated and should be actively pushed back on.
Yeah on rethinking the fundamental nature of my statement you’re probably right. I hate the stupid tolerance shit. Fuck being tolerant I’m intolerant as fuck who cares. With regards to pronouns, they are in my opinion entirely subjective. The first one that comes to my mind when looking at someone is as correct as the first word anyone else might think of. That being said I do consider the opinion of the person I’m talking about, it’s just complimentary to my own interpretation of gender
You shouldn’t speak on the trans experience if you don’t understand it, because you’re way off-base. No one should be forced to tolerate the intolerant. If someone calls me something I don’t like, I correct them. I’m not ascribing malice, but I am asking to be respected. After that point, if they continue to do it intentionally, they’re an asshole and I see no reason to engage with them whatsoever. If your authentic self requires disrespecting others, you’re probably not worth engaging with. This is just the paradox of tolerance again.
If you get someone’s name wrong, and they correct you, you’re an asshole if you continue calling them the wrong name. If you unknowingly call someone a slur, and you continue to use it after being corrected, you’re an asshole. The same is true for pronouns, nicknames, adjectives, etc. You don’t get to pick and choose what’s disrespectful to someone else, and that means you might disagree.
Example: I’m an atheist. I find no issue with cursing god, joking about religion, etc. If a friend of mine told me that they’re religious, and that it makes them uncomfortable when I do so, it would be a dick move for me to continue. I don’t have to agree with them, but choosing not to respect them because I believe differently makes me an asshole. If that’s a line I refuse to respect, then I should remove myself and not be around that person.
I’m not trans but I’m a feminine presenting man. Regardless, people can speak on whatever they want to, that doesn’t mean they have anything of value to add though.
Tolerating intolerance is a nothing burger of a philosophical/linguistic debate. It literally stems from right wing trolls making jokes about the supposed “tolerant left” and for some stupid fucking reason troglodyte leftists feel the need to engage good faith with the statement, everytime it’s brought up I just move on. It doesn’t mean anything.
Someones an asshole if they are deliberately calling someone something they don’t want to be called with the intention of bullying them. Intent matters more and in the above scenario the intent was clearly established to be adherence to a cultural norm, not to insult the person. It would be silly to go to Spain and be mad at them for not using preferred english pronouns even if it was made clear because like, they’re just speaking their language. They don’t mean anything by it. Any offence only exists in the mind of the offended.
Intent does matter, which means if someone continues “adhering to a cultural norm” after being asked to stop, their intent is now malicious. They are willfully disrespectful.
I’d posit that a core part of the trans experience is being able to have authority over how you wish to be refered to, actually.
Imagine one would genuinely not care about being called dipshit under the given circumstances. Context and intent are more important than the choice of words. I can’t call something retarded, but I can call it demented. Crazy is fine, slow isn’t. If it were about people and slurs, both words would be banned, but only one is, leaving the feeling of oppression under the banner of Good rather than it being actually about change for the better.
I’ve had people say “you” is a slur.
Fuck off.
I could make a more detailed argument, but no. I should not need to.
That drag person?
Drag’s never said “you” is a slur, drag doesn’t even require that people use drag’s preferred pronouns.
People just get embarrassed to be misgendering drag on their own and get upset with drag about it.
You’re easily the worst thing on this site that has actual Nazis.
Just block the user if they’re annoying you.
You can’t call Drag by drag’s preferred pronouns? Hell that one is easy to remember tbh.
Okay.
Actually kill yourself
A person who refers to themselves in the third person in one hand.
Nazis in the other.
You’d pick Nazis?
I didn’t know I had to pick? I choose neither. And since you can’t force me to, I will always choose neither. Fuck Nazis and fuck this dragon retard.
It isn’t third person (this comes from asking drag about it a while ago),
they(edit: er drag) treat drag as an actual neopronoun. Technically if there are infinite pronouns and neopronouns are valid, then it is just as much of a valid neopronoun as any other noun-self pronoun like kitten/kittenself, doll/dollself, or yes, drag/dragself. Below I’ve linked the wikipedia page for neopronouns, see the section labeled noun-self pronouns.Drag uses person independent pronouns, drag isn’t a nickname.
This might help you understand why someone who is okay with Nazis hates drag.
“okay with Nazis”
Fucking actually kill yourself you fucking piece of shit scumbag troglodyte. To be perfectly clear: fuck every single Nazi who has ever lived, and then fuck you too.
LMFAO, I thought it was “nigga” for a minute there.
It’s a very interesting take that really makes you look at things from a different perspective, but it kinda breaks down if you think about it. If this person really was saying it like a pronoun with no offense intended, and they were using it to refer to half of everyone they spoke to, and it was how other people referred to that person themself too, then it would quickly seem fine to me. If everyone is calling people dipshit all the time then it quickly becomes nothing to care about
I disagree. If I don’t like being called dispshit, the thing to do is not call me dipshit. Your intent stops mattering the moment you know how I prefer to be referred to and actively decline to respect it.
At the risk of bringing up a controversial topic, this principle seems to be applied inconsistently. Eg. the people who say “men are trash” and then “if it doesn’t apply to you, it shouldn’t hurt you” would probably agree with your stance, but this is inconsistent.
They’re the same kind of person that told me that I wasn’t allowed to identify as queer because it’s a slur, and I can’t call myself a tomboy because it infantilizes women. Tons of people can’t walk their talk, and anybody who says hypocrisy is absent from their demographic has a bridge to sell you.
Yes, it does break down in a hypothetical situation like the one you describe. But in reality and communication there always will be grey areas where shoe box thinking does not work out in a harmonic way. The acceptable outcome could be that person A simply dislikes person B for not respecting his/her wish and person B is okay with being disliked. Both agree to not enact policies based on their wishes. For me it seems in reality this often fails because of ambiguity intolerance.
Yup. My coworkers like to swear, and I don’t, so I just don’t swear and they do. It works out pretty well. As long as I know there’s no malice in it, it really doesn’t bother me.
This isn’t even relevant. Swearing in general terms is not the same as referring directly to someone by a name they do not want to be referred to by.
It has the same offensive element, which is what I was getting at.
There’s a big difference between someone doing it on purpose and them doing it on accident/out of habit. As long as I know there’s no malice, I can deal with quite a bit.
The part about it not bothering you is key.
Yeah, it’s kinda like cunt with aussies and brits.
Jesus fucking cunt, you cunt just drop cunt at every cunt you see or some cunts gonna get a cunt in their cunt about it
Oi! You takin the piss, ye cunt?
Nah cunt
wanker
Yeah it’s weird, I very much agree you should respect what people want to be called (unless maybe you feel they really lost all right to be respected, but then it’s an active choice to insult) but the metaphor misses me so much it gives me the opposite reaction. If someone calls me some word that is normal to them but usually offensive to me I just think that’s interesting that their culture is different for that word.
Of course the non-asshole reaction here is to just say “ah sorry, it’s a normal non insulting way of calling people where I’m from, didn’t mean to offend you” and do your best to stop using it, but somehow this makes it harder for me to reach that conclusion.
You could say intent matters.
Depends. If you specifically have trauma from being called dipshit then it doesn’t.
Yeah, well… in this scenario where dipshit is an everyday word and used without malice, it’s difficult to see how someone could have trauma from that.
“He” is an everyday word used without malice, but drag still doesn’t like being called it.
Oh hey, haven’t seen you around, I hope you’re doing well
Lemmy… Isn’t a great place for trans people. Drag had to take a step back.
Drag was being harassed by someone who had a problem with the way drag talked someone down from suicide. Ada promised to help, but didn’t. Drag didn’t know, and thought the harasser was lying. When drag showed a screenshot of Ada saying she’d stop the harassment, Ada took offence. She thought she was being called a liar. Drag had no idea she broke her promise, drag thought it was all the harasser’s fault. Drag got banned from Blahaj.
LMAO, imagine believing this nonsense. People don’t like you because you’re insane.
Have everyone, even people you care about and who supposedly care about you, call you something you hate for four or five decades. And they know you hate it, and you know they know, and they keep doing it anyway.
It’s not the name, it’s the incessant implication that you and your wishes do not matter.
This is obviously about Australians calling their mates “cunts”.
hey cunt!
New response if TERFism:
“Ok dipshit”
We’ll win the social media battle with that one for sure.
You’re not going to change their minds no matter how much effort you put in. Might as well give a zero effort response.
It’s like when I lived in Miami and everyone called me “gringo” or “flaco.” When I asked them to stop they would say it was endearing. But imagine if I called them “removed” or “fatty” what their reaction would be.
I assume you mean Gordo and not gringo. Gringo for anyone interested literally means Greek, and in Spanish it is slang for anyone who doesn’t speak Spanish. It’s really not an insult, at least in US Spanish there we offensive terms for white people, so. There’s that. But I know people really freak out about ‘‘Gordo’’ and it really isn’t like calling fatty, it’s a lot more like calling someone Bubba. Bubba isn’t a slur, it’s southern slang meaning bubble, and it’s for people who have roundness. They don’t even have to be tubby. We called my youngest brother Gordo and Goose. Idk why Goose. But Gordo was because he was a fat baby. He’s in his 30s now, tall, pretty muscular, in the military. Still call him Gordo. No one calls me flaco anymore. They don’t call me Gordo either. I think I’m too fat… they call me papi, because I look a lot like my grandfather now and that’s what we called him.
Yeah this post is about you.
Fatty? Is that a slur for something? Or was everybody there just overweight?
Flaco means skinny
Translating is always perilous. My dad said never do it. But I wouldn’t translate Gordo to fatty. It’s not old slang, it’s not out of date, and it’s not culturally offensive. It’s more like calling your son ‘‘bread ball’’ or ‘‘Lil biscuit’’ or something you’d lovingly call a chubby baby.
I mean it’s very common for fat men to be nicknamed “gordo” ie fatty. Of course it’s ignorant but definitely not meant offensively.
We started calling my wife’s narcissistic psychopathic Russian ex dipshit because we got tired of having to use his name. Now I barely remember his name, it’s just dip shit
Then one day she got tired of his crap, beat the shit out of him, so now we just call him dip
Language is owned by the group.
Individuals don’t dictate to the group.
are you saying it’s unreasonable to ask not to be called something you don’t want to be called?
Depends, I’ve had people request I stop calling them “dude” or “man.” The first of which being my dad, who insisted when I was young that it was disrespectful and I should call him “dad” or “father.” This did not go well for him, even to this day, spoke to him last night and at one point said “Dude so I was reading this article the other day…” My grandma also requested the same, as ironic as that is in this post, and was met with similar resistance. It’s like asking someone to quit saying “like,” it can be done but it takes active effort to change their speech pattern, to which I say “no, it is neither disrespectful nor gendered, and I will not actively change my entire speech pattern to satiate an unreasonable demand from one person that I know, so you can either get over being called dude just like literally everyone else I talk to, or we don’t have to talk, dad.” I’m not doing it to piss him off, it is just how I talk.
“Hey, son, when you call me dude it feels like you don’t respect me, like I’ve lost the right to be your father, something that I am incredibly proud of. I know that you mean it conversationally, so I try not to take it personally, but in my mind it’s a term of mutual connection and endearment and it means a lot to me to be able to hold that title for you.”
Oof, fuck, I did emotional damage to myself.
Yeeeeeaaaah he didn’t tell me he was proud of me until I was 25, so “probably not.”
Also I did/do call him dad, but dude is more of an interjection or exclamation than an honorific. “Hey dad how you been? … Word cool glad to hear it. OH DUDE so I was talking to mom the other day, and…”
“Dude” like 100% of the time means either I forgot an acquaintance’s name or “OH SHIT my ADHD just reminded me of this thing I’m about to tell you” or “Maaaaaan/sheeeeeit/duuuuude” or simply the same as “bro/guy/buddy/pal/mack/playa/nword(can’tsaythatonebutykwim)/hoss/boss/cat/chingon/друг/чубак/comrade/friend/doc/anything-commonly-used-instead-of-a-name.”
I feel you, dude (lol). My kids call me dude like that, too, and I use it the same way. I often used to say, “Yeah, man,” as an affirmative, no matter who I was talking to, but I guess that fell out of daily use a while back.
I was trying to look at it from a father’s perspective; the kind of thing I might say in that situation if it really bothered me. And, I think it’s important to explain how we feel about things using that “when you say/do X, it makes me feel Y” formula to help keep things focused and non-accusatory.
I also say “man” like that still haha.
Yeah I feel ya, but I don’t think that was him, knowing him. More likely it was some archaic notion that was a remnant from the 50s, that addressing your parents as anything other than “sir” or “ma’am” is improper, which he also unsuccessfully tried to push. He’s dropped it now, though, which is good because it was just not gonna happen.
no, you’re just an asshole.
No u
Crutch words suck ass. Go to Toastmasters.
“No.”
There’s a certain societal inertia you have to push against, and it’s unrealistic to expect everyone to change these patterns for you instantly. Friends/family/kind acquaintances will take some time, and others may never change for your sake.
I get that it’s challenging for some people, but the actual difficult part is just getting people to have the baseline of respect to even try.
Like at any larger social gathering, even among “woke” commies, etc, someone is going to be misgendering someone else like every other minute, but we’re all doing our best and actually trying. We just muddle through.
I think most peoole that agree with OP understand the societal inertia, and complications occured by having a prefrence contrary to the majority.
I think the point of this post is to be part of that pushback. To have those who have never been in the minority to have some empathy. So that when we meet somebody who has a prefrence that makes you do some work, people may be more inclined to accomidate and support othrs.
It would require a feat of marketing to shift the definition used by the group. I think that’s how it’s generally done. Call it reasonable or unreasonable or whatever you like.
Wrong. The group is enslaved by its language. humans just go about vommiting grammar. utterances, words and narratives muchlike genes just seek to establish themselves and prolong their stay. There is no free will. Capricornus agnus dei Dark triad 6 6 6
Except there are different groups.
I thought this was a post about the overuse of “dude”
Ok, but what is it about?
- Slurs in general
- Misgendering
Take your pick, really. I can think of a couple of things just off the top of my head.
OP is a native of Albany, NY, where everybody refers to hamburgers as steamed hams, even when it comes to their patented family recipes. This is for when OP must meet with other people who are not familiar with the regional dialect, even those from Utica, and are preparing for an unforgettable luncheon.
Ah, I see.
And they call them steamed hams, despite the fact that they are obviously grilled?
Sometimes the technically proper name is just worse.
Like toasted cheese. Which is a weird south-central NY thing.
Some “”“people”“” here in the Midwest call them cheese toasty
I’d never heard that while I lived there. What part of the Midwest?
I grew up there and we called them toasted cheese or grilled cheese pretty much interchangeably.
Always served with tomato soup though.
But not cheese toasty
Uh well you see – Y’know, the thing is –
Excuse me
This got me good, burst out with a loud “HA!” in a crowded coffee shop.
the way i interpreted it is that it’s about the “but dude/man/bro is gender neutral!” thing, when someone expresses that they don’t like being referred to using masculine terms
I do actually call my mom bro, but if like, a friend or coworker said “don’t call me that” I just wouldn’t do it.
Yeah, I definitely see those as contextually non-gendered, but the moment someone asks me not to call them a certain thing… I just don’t call them that again, and apologize if I do. It takes almost 0 effort to use a different word.
I call my husband bro, and while he is a dude, he’s definitely not my brother (also he calls me bro and I’m a woman ish).
But yeah, talking to people in a way they dislike is making the world unhappier for no reason.
Bro is harder to argue for sure.
And man, unless it’s more, “oh man, that’s rough” as an excalamatory rather than “good to see you man” is still gendered.
But dude has never been gendered. It was mostly used by guys towards guys, but the origins of that usage (rather than dude ranches or the derogatory term related to that) it was applied to everyone. Dudette came along later but was essentially created because the usage was male dominated, not because dude was gendered. It’s one of the rare gender neutral, inclusive slang terms. So much so that when dudette was thrown around, it got rejected as unnecessary, and was sometimes taken offensively. Same with dudina and dudess.
Mind you, the era where it was mostly an underground slang used in African American circles is murkier, since it was underground, less written at the time, and after it got “borrowed” by white kids lost its popularity there.
But when surfer culture picked it up, and it spread via movies, female surfers were called dude, and used it the same way as female surfers. They were just such a minority that the association didn’t stick in pop culture because what got seen was Spicoli, and the association with it as being used by guys about guys got absorbed as the primary usage.
There was no gender division in that origin, nor was there a need for it. There simply wasn’t a female specific alternative to dude.
Since it is still used inclusively far more than it isn’t, it’s usually better to assume the best rather than the worst. Someone duding someone in a casual and friendly way is unlikely to be using it as a gendered term. It’s more like buddy, or pal, or even mate than something like bro that started gendered and is still predominantly used that way.
Yeah, dude doesn’t really bother me, but the others, as well as “guys,” do. Bro has a natural feminine version: “sis.” So does man: “woman” or “girl.” Likewise for guys: “gals” or “girls.” Making them gender neutral just causes confusion IMO, we should instead just use different terms w/o any gender association, such as “fellow,” “friend,” “home slice/skillet” (the 90s kid in me really wants that to come back), or the others you mentioned.
But yeah, dude is totally fine as a gender-neutral term due to surfer culture taking it over. But the others are a lot harder sell for me.
But yes, be excellent to each other. If your female friend wants to be called “bro,” go nuts.
Not to poke, but the other day at work I walked up to a group of women and just casually said, “hey guys” without even thinking about it. The reaction was absent. It was just a simple response back, “hey how’s it going?”
After I said it, I was like in my own head, “huh, that was odd.”
Yeah, it’s more acceptable these days among younger women (i.e. a recent grad at my work says “hey guys” all the time), but not as much with older women. So maybe it’ll eventually be fine for pretty much everyone, but for now, I think it’s still weird, and I’m a little sad that it’s being repurposed (i.e. “going out w/ the guys” isn’t as clear any more).
I’d really like to find a nice, neutral term for referring to people myself, but I haven’t yet found something that feels right for me yet. I’ve never said fellows, since I seem to lean back towards ‘fellas’, which kind of remakes the issue at hand.
And as cool as homeslice or skillet are, I’m not sure those are quite ‘me’ lol. Guess there’s only one way to find out.
See ya, homedawg.
Sorry for the mostly tangent, but I guess I’m also more sensitive about terms than I realized.
My sister got married after dating her husband for about six months. On the day of the wedding, my new BIL started calling me “sis” even though it was the third time we’d met.
I actually like him quite a lot now and I’m very glad that they’re married, but woof did that rub me the wrong way. I don’t think anyone has ever called me sis before or since with the exception of drunk women in the bathroom (and I have, all told, eight siblings, step siblings, and siblings in law).
I think that your intentions are good, but you’re missing the point. If someone doesn’t like what you’re calling them, just don’t call them that. I don’t think if someone was called dude and didn’t like it, that they would assume the worst, they would just ask you to please not call them that.
Sure, I probably should have specified I was going on a tangent rather than commenting on the post directly. Gonna edit that in. Thank you :)
This is the only one that I haven’t been able to drop from growing up in the early 2000s. I’m good about not saying it in public, but if it’s just the boys playing games or something all bets are off haha
There’s not really a suitable replacement unfortunately
I had assumed this was referring to the case years back of Elon Musk calling a British guy that was trying to help rescue some children from a submerged cave in the Philippines a “pedo”.
He was naturally sued about it but somehow avoided rightful punishment by claiming that he didn’t mean literally and it was a phrase used all the time in South Africa.
Twat waffle is a phrase we use all the time in my country. We use it whenever Elon is mentioned.
My first thought was “queer.” I know people who hate being called queer, but people still call them that anyway because they’re “taking back the word” or something like that
Fuck me I can’t keep up. I thought queer was officially OK.
Only for those I personally know in San Francisco and not necessarily ANYBODY else:
Not just officially OK but like way preferred as the general term.
Makes sense it’d be different regionally and person to person, sure, too
Generally maybe, but if someone says “don’t call me that,” the best thing to do is not call them that. Some people still have really negative experiences relating to the word. I know if people bullied me relentlessly in the past using the word, I wouldn’t want internet strangers calling me queer as well, even if they claim to mean well
I don’t really keep up with social movements, so my take might be outdated. Anyway, I always preferred to be called queen cause it was the first word I heard used to describe people like me, and it just felt more natural that trying to memorize all those complicated sub-labels people like to use.
I’m guessing it just depends on the person / area
I think you’re good to use it as long as you’re not saying it in a mean way. I haven’t heard it used as a slur in years and years.
Might vary by region idk, just ask a queer person.
It was used heavily as a slur/insult for a very long time
Think of something you wouldn’t like to be called, and that’s it.
