You must log in or register to comment.
This is just poorly thought out. You offer dessert and to pay, yhen classify out as food motivation. I mean it could be that he’s happy you’re paying, or happy you want to be out longer. If anything he just ate, so food motivation would be at it’s lowest.
You’re taking an animal that isn’t as complex as humans or even have a concept of society, and trying to apply that to a person in a relationship. I think the thought is there, but the conclusions are a bit flawed.
I mean it could be that he’s happy you’re paying, or happy you want to be out longer.
Oh, have you seen video of their lunch or something? You should post it, we can figure this out right now.
That’s my point. We don’t know. She made a wild assumption based on terms used to train dogs.
We don’t know. Through grand powers of deduction, I assume she was in the room when it happened.
We’re only more complex in that we have language systems so can assess situations in a more detailed way. The majority of the time we have pretty much the same instincts and responses to stimuli to many other animals because, in short, it takes less energy/effort. Being able to conceive society, something canines can do, doesn’t stop other natural instincts. There is a level of simplification, yes, but this is a social media post, not a scientific study so it won’t explain every minute detail!
We’re only more complex in that we have language systems so can assess situations in a more detailed way.
In part yes. But we also have a society. We have concepts of social norms that we created and evolved. We have expectations developed through a lifetime of education and media. A human from 50 years ago would feel lost in today’s world, let alone a dog. We may be driven by some same basics, but we are more complex.
My point is that we can’t talk to dogs like we can to humans. So we learn signs and try to interpret them as best we can. But interpretations are just that - interpretations. They can be wrong. A better method would be to talk and discuss the issue, removing the need for any guesswork.
M&M?
If THAT is what counts as “being treated like a dog”, woof woof!
🦴
Honestly if we treated each other as well as we treated dogs we’d already be in paradise.
😬
Some dogs.
She seems to have only the best intentions, but I can’t help but feel a little creeped out. She’s using a psychological trick to leverage this man’s trauma in order to get him to behave in a certain way, and she’s doing it without his knowledge or consent. I think that’s dishonest at the very least, and I don’t think building the foundation of your relationship on calculated manipulation is going to lead to a good outcome.
I’d even go as far as saying her emotional intelligence creates a power imbalance in the relationship, which she is deliberately exploiting.
I agree that what she does is manipulative and condescending even with the best intentions (paving the road to hell and all that), but I have issues with the use of “emotional intelligence” here.
An emotional intelligent person does NOT do this kind of shit on purpose.
They meet the other person where they’re at and on the same level, they communicate honestly, they don’t presume to educate or manage them.I’d say she comes off more as emotionally stunted, she has no idea know how to relate with her partner as an equal.
Eh, I see it as a way to overcome trauma. In therapy don’t they give you “tools” to use to achieve the same? Unknown that’s the individual doing it themselves and not a third party doing it. But I don’t see it as overly wrong.
At least until the individual overcomes the trauma, although I suppose they themselves should be able to acknowledge that they have overcome it.
So I don’t know. What I do know is if someone felt that strongly, directly towards my mental health, it would be amazing.
Someone who always has a snack for me if I’m feeling down?? Sign me the fuck up!
I was like ‘I need a caretaker/trainer’
My fat ass (food motivated btw) immediately thought of the snacks but someone who can make me quit my bullshit is even better!
We’re all animals, whether or not we want to believe that is simply a fact. And on top of that we are stressed the fuck out which pushes people, to vary degrees, back towards monkey brain. I consider myself pretty self-aware and therapy has proven that but oh man did my last job do a lot to leave me defensive and short with even the people I care about.
There’s that phrase “you can’t logic someone out of an argument they didn’t logic themselves into” that very well encapsulates the idea that trying to force some higher intelligence, some emotionless, robotic reasoning onto people does very little to actually help(though it should help more than it does and I’m disappointed in people running on pure, angry emotion all the same).
We need to stop acting like we aren’t the way that we are, it just hurts us. I’m not saying we need to excuse bad behaviour because, unlike wild animals, we have a great capacity to know better and adjust, but we do need to be more ok with the reality of ourselves.
To add to this, you can do this to yourself as well. Reward yourself for the right behavior, tell yourself your did a good job, etc. It’s (I’m guessing) harder than extrinsic motivation, but it still works. Take advantage of having a stupid lizard brain under all the stuff that makes us human.
We very likely conditioned ourselves to hate ourselves, and it so clearly works, so absolutely we can use those same tools to teach ourselves to be kinder as well.
I spent a whole year writing a journal and that basically put it in writing that things weren’t quite as bad as I had thought. Even without doing it now my mind will go to better places automatically because I built up that reaction and understanding.
I feel like this was ultimately the point of the love yourself movement. I don’t know how you could convince yourself to love yourself without conditioning yourself to do it, too.
Me, reading title: “WTF?!? That’s messed up!”
Me, after reading the post: “I’m so fucking jealous.”
I also want M&M rewards.
deleted by creator
I will throw you like Donkey Kong throws a barrel.
Isn’t this just reinforcement, like reinforcement vs punishment from behavioral psychology? It works.
Intent matters, and methods matter. But I think what the friend is missing is that the methods aren’t bad; op is using methods developed from scientific analysis of abused animals with the intent to ethically care for them. Coming back to intent, she clearly wants to help this guy who her training is identifying as having some kind of background of abuse. The methods might be a little crude in the sense that they were developed for animals and not for people (who are animals, but animals with several distinct qualities from other animals, like the ability to communicate complex ideas), and there are different, more well-adapted methods for people, but they’re only crude in comparison to those modern human-focused methods. They’re still quite effective, and I would still consider them ethical for use on humans when paired with an altruistic intent, which she seems to be conveying. As long as she still views the guy as fully a person, a peer, then I see nothing wrong here.
The only vaguely concerning bit I see here is the penultimate sentence. Evading consent is sketchy, but I’m not a behavioral psychologist and thus have no working knowledge on how that would impact his “treatment”.
I think that’s what stuck for me. Manipulation takes many forms, not all look evil. She should take these observations and talk to him about it, instead of using them as tools to treat his feelings.
Talk about what, though?
“Hello, I would like to give you peanuts sometimes when you’re sad. Do you accept these terms?”
What is he consenting to that he’s not already aware of?
Speaking of pavlovian conditioning, the reason I don’t like casinos, loot boxes in video games, gacha mechanics, etc., is not that I think those people haven’t consented to their money being taken from them. I just don’t think those are good institutions. Or practices. Whichever word applies. They take more than they give, and I don’t think that’s fair.
You’re grossly misrepresenting what this is. She got desserts and noted him as food motivated. That’s insulting. He only got happy because there was food for him to eat, really? No discussion of why he was sad before, just get him snacks and move on? Maybe talk to him and ask why he seemed upset before desert instead of just giving him a snack and hoping it’s better.
The woman here is trying to change his mood or behavior through dog training techniques instead of figuring out why he feels or acts a certain way. Is he aware that she is literally treating him like a dog? It comes across as her caring about his behavior in the moment more than his overall mental health.
He only got happy because there was food for him to eat, really?
I don’t know about you, but I love dessert.
instead of figuring out why he feels or acts a certain way.
So, 1, this doesn’t answer my question about what it is he hasn’t consented to.
2, how is it you know she’s not interested in his life story?
I don’t know about you, but I love dessert.
Fair, but if I’m upset because I might lose my job or my mom is sick then that doesn’t address any of those.
So, 1, this doesn’t answer my question about what it is he hasn’t consented to.
Ok let’s answer that. Did she say “I’m going to treat you like a dog” and him agree? Did she say, “I’m giving you an m&m ever time you open up to encourage it” I doubt it and she never mentioned it. She simply does this as a manipulation technique without ever discussing “hey, I think we need to talk about you being comfortable being vulnerable.”
2, how is it you know she’s not interested in his life story?
Well she had the chance to say she actually talked about and addressed the problems upsetting him, but she never mentioned that at all. Just dog training strategies she uses on him without him being aware.
Did she say “I’m going to treat you like a dog” and him agree?
And what does this mean, exactly? You get the extra muffin she baked or something? You get to cuddle a lot?
Did she say, “I’m giving you an m&m ever time you open up to encourage it”
She probably didn’t say that, no, but I assume he can see this, like, with his eyes. If he doesn’t want m&m’s, why take them?
Well she had the chance to say …
So, she hasn’t told you via this tweet, therefore, ergo, concordantly, vice ve, she has never cared or asked about, like, his childhood or his mom.
Intent matters, and methods matter.
pretty much agree, it’s not like she’s conditioning him to sounds CLICK-CLICK good boy…
Though there’s probably a significant amount of people on lemmy who would be into actually that.
I did accidentaly develop a kink to being called good boy.
Is it really the ‘good boy’ part, or just the validation? Because I could say the same thing about ‘good boy,’ AND about every other compliment doled out to me once every few months.
At this point, many contexts will make me feel weird when I’m called a good boy. And specifically good boy.
Thanks, weirdo AI for ruining me.
So much of kink is just “I like validation, and having my boundaries respected”.
Me reading about bdsm: “bro aftercare is just being vanilla as heck.”
You can absolutely condition me into doing whatever you want by cracking open a beer next to me
I brought a six pack to a final exam in grad school (take the test in the same state in which you study, right?) and people around me perked up and almost literally started drooling when I cracked the first one.
Edit: no, we engineering students don’t have driving problems, you have a drinking problem!
Beer isn’t a problem, it’s a complex mixture.
i don’t kinkshame
deleted by creator
I don’t see a problem here.
Gotta say, this smells a little like a top tier troll post. That out of the way, I also would like someone to carry around peanut M&Ms for me.
Top tier reward
62yo male here thinks she’s a damn genius… maybe she should like, make some of those tiktoks or something…
As a 62 year old, you should not encourage awful things…like going on TikTok
true, but how else are all those other women gonna learn her wise ways if she doesn’t? american women anyways…
As Iggy Pop said, now I wanna be your dog.
