6 months in and Liberals are still trying to blame their election loss on the left lmao.
Yes, and it wouldn’t have fucking mattered.
As is tradition. In the Weimar Republic the communists were far too busy fighting the social democrats to put up any meaningful resistance against the Nazis.
Yeah I wonder if there was a reason the communists were fighting both the nazis and ‘social democrats,’ and had to spend more time fighting the larger group that was openly funding the nazis.
The social democrats were funding the Nazis? Suuuure, buddy.
Just a reminder that communists weren’t the ones to appoint nazis to power; anti communists were. The ones that thought violence is never the answer and we should just vote harder if we don’t want fascists in power.
And everytime those people get power fascists get power shortly after. Maybe it’s not financially funding, but anti’tankies’ are responsible for every instance of fascism taking power. Because equality and equity scares you people.
username does not check out
Sorry, niceness does not extend to fascists or their enablers due to recent world events. To resubscribe, stop being a cunt.
Projecting much?
Liberals have been the only people in world history to choose fascism over any form of communism, since fascism doesn’t threaten their world view.
This includes the dem party in the US who picked clinton, biden, and harris, three far right shit stains, instead of anyone slightly centrist or left wing.
Oooh, wrong answer. Sorry.
Which German president appointed Hitler as chancellor? Which “leftist” political parties did and did not endorse that president?
Not that the distinction bears much value making: They funded the proto-Nazis.
In the time period in question (After WW1, Wiemar Germany) the social democrats were in direct coalition with right wing paramilitaries.
Those paramilitaries did some extrajudicial killings and some just so happened to form things like the S.A. and the Nazi party. (And tried to overthrow the social democrats government a number of times by military coup.) Erich Ludendorff is a notable figure to this period.
But by the time the proto-Nazis had murdered themselves and others enough to become the Nazis, no, the social democrats were no longer in alliance, but mostly after the second coup attempt.
Is that why they killed them first?
People criticize the dems because they hope the dems might listen.
We need a way to have our voices heard if you don’t want us shouting and protesting.
To reduce infighting amongst the democrats, create official avenues for grievances and disagreements to be settled that can actually influence party platform and trajectory without tearing the movement apart.
Use the settling of our varied perspectives to bind us so that our unsettled disagreements don’t tear us apart.
Putin loves the fact that the time you chose to criticize them the hardest was during the election. Good job being a pawn for Putin.
That’s because they concentrated their fuckups in election season. Biden ran a mostly fine operation, then in the final year he decided the best end for his term was to genocide Gazans and Harris decided to abandon everything the Democratic party was supposed to stand for.
To reduce infighting amongst the democrats, create official avenues for grievances and disagreements to be settled that can actually influence party platform and trajectory without tearing the movement apart.
This is literally the purpose of the party. People who are quick to disclaim the democrats’ corruption have never been to a DNC meeting. It takes more than one person, and it takes more than one meeting, but that’s literally what it’s there for.
I see a lot of shitting on the Democrats (which, surprise, helps republiQans) but I don’t see a lot of discussion about meeting. I don’t see a lot of "join us for the ___ meeting on ____ ". Just a ton of idiot garbage like “libz! voting is a sham. they all hate Palestinians”
I don’t see a lot of "join us for the ___ meeting on ____ ".
This is literally the purpose of the party.
Right. It’s not fulfilling its purpose. That’s what we’re asking for.
Very good! And how is that done?
By building something better.
Excellent. And how is that done?
Yeah. Imagine if all these people actually showed up to primaries.
Or motivated non voters to show up to primaries
Imagine if people could trust democrats to run honest primaries.
It pisses me off to no end when people conflate legitimate criticism of Democrats with tankie rhetoric. The Dems are complacent, listless, corrupt, and lazy. They refuse to stand up to the Republicans until it’s too late or doesn’t matter.
The people want progressive politics: universal healthcare, living wage, affordable housing, education, and food. We want a sustainable future and an end to corporate greed.
The donor class, superpacs, and other sources of dark money in politics are what keep nearly everyone corrupt. Its addictive.
How will you get any of that without tanks?
Have you said tanks once?
Are you trying to say we can’t have universal healthcare without leftist authoritarianism or do you not know what a “tankie” is?
A) yes, it is impossible to reform an embedded regime of wealth. You need revolution, which will likely require tanks even in the age of drones.
B) tankie is anything to the left of burning children alive for warmth, at least how it’s used on this site.
A) yes, it is impossible to reform an embedded regime of wealth. You need revolution, which will likely require tanks even in the age of drones.
Plenty of countries managed to enact universal health care coverage, facing down the same embedded regime of wealthy special interests, without full revolution. You’re just flat out wrong.
B) tankie is anything to the left of burning children alive for warmth, at least how it’s used on this site.
Lol k
A) those countries had far less embedded capitalists. They did not reform, they advanced in a linear direction.
B) you’re a north American, half of you are fascists and the other half are conservative Catholics. Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
A) those countries had far less embedded capitalists. They did not reform, they advanced in a linear direction.
This is based on literally nothing. The way that health care was funded and delivered was reformed completely, many times in many countries, and was opposed on exactly the same lines, and that opposition was overcome. Your insistence that the whole system must be torn down or whatever is without rational or historical backing, and will guarantee failure.
B) you’re a north American, half of you are fascists and the other half are conservative Catholics. Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
Nobody knows what you’re talking about, including you.
A) no it wasn’t. The vast majority of healthcare reforms in the EU took place shortly after WWII and explicitly due to the fact fascism was fresh in everyone’s mind so they could just remind everyone of nazi healthcare practices.
B) Assuming you’re on ca due to your location, look up literally anything about native Americans in your country since you failed to learn about it in school (or went to school before courses on actual Canadians were added). Starlight tours still happen to this day and native women still disproportionately ‘go missing.’
Don’t you people specifically still kill native women so regularly there’s multiple euphemisms about it?
I can’t say this is familiar to me, at all.
Any Canadian that doesn’t know about ‘starlight tours’ at this point is either sheltered or willfully ignorant to the plight of native women in Canada.
Canada has this nice image and all, but they’re still committing genocide.
Plenty of countries managed to enact universal
And those countries have tanks
Though some temporary concessions might be had through labor militancy.
and yet they are head and shoulders above the trump cult
anyone that can’t see that or chooses to campaign and vote against the democrats is so corrupted by socialist fundamentalism that they enabled fascism
So when they agree to vote for Trump’s demands, they’re fundamentally better? Gutting Section 230 is the better choice because Trump said it, but they voted for it? Appointing Trump’s batshit cabinet picks? Bombs are inherently less deadly if a D signed off on it instead of a R?
Is my governor, Newsom of California, inherently better for being a democrat as he invites Republicans like actual open nazi and helper of Trump’s rise to power, Steven Bannon? Is he inherently better when he agrees with Charlie Kirk that trans people don’t have a place in society? Giving them not just a soap box, but a microphone and a speaker to the masses, and agreeing with them?
This is better? Agreeing to their demands and pretending you’re not helping their fascism?
you couldn’t see the difference before the election and you still can’t see the difference now?
for real?
come ooooon
at least talk about bernie and aoc or something vaguely convincing
You did not answer my question, please try again with a bit more brain power.
Is my governor better for inviting Republican dipshits and agreeing with them, because he’s a Democrat? Are bombs used for murder better with a Blue pen instead of a Red pen?
And Bernie and AOC are cool, they won’t be any positions of power because of Schumer and Pelosi.
you’re still campaigning so hard for trump, this is what i mean about how corrupt the socialists are
to answer your questions: bombs are all the same. you don’t have to agree with all dems to see they are better than the cult
but you can’t see that?
bernie and aoc are not in a position of power now because you encouraged people not to vote for them
the logic is pretty simple
I literally have never once praised Trump. I am saying “If Democrats are voting yes with his fasicst demands, they are doing a bad job at stopping Trump.”
bernie and aoc are not in a position of power now because you encouraged people not to vote for them
Point to me ever once saying “Do not vote for Bernie or AOC” in my entire account history. Any and all of it. Please, if it’s so clear as day, use my words against me. Screenshot it so I can’t edit or delete it too. Document me lying to you and the public.
Let me make it clear: Trump is evil. If someone agrees with him, they are complicit in his evil. That includes, voting for his demands. That includes giving him what he wants drawn up by Republican house/senators, and voting with it.
I like Al Green. I like AOC. I like Bernie. I like Booker. They have stood up for my kind more than most politicians. If the entire Democratic party was filled with them, I’d have a lot less to complain about. Instead we have Schumer saying he won’t vote yes on Trump’s demands, and then last minute gives Trump what he wants. Instead we have Pelosi in a hospital voting to prevent AOC from gaining rank in the House.
Once again, is my governor, promoting actual, unironic Nazis who enabled Trump’s rise of power good for America because he’s a Democrat? Richard Bannon literally sig heiled to Trump 2 weeks before the podcast episode featureing and agreeing with him. Is this good?
And please try to use grammar and spelling like we do when we speak English.
you seem a little confused; quite typical of myopic socialists that can’t see beyond the current protest
the OP was about how people like yourself raged against the democrats by taking fundamentalist positions that made you predictably blind to the bigger picture of preventing the actual fascists getting to power and shooting the causes you thought you were supporting in the foot, and causing other immeasurable damage
and you’re still doing it!
attempt to wrap your head around that, i know looking more than 1 move ahead really isn’t your forte
Booker voted to fund Israel, unfortunately. He’s not the worst, and is in the limelight right now, but he’s got a mixed and spotty voting record.
Some stuff I can forgive, but not supporting genocide.
I say this fully aware that I voted for Harris because I know she’d have been better than Trump.
Hell lemme help you, here’s a post from 3 days ago, unedited, saying I want more Democrats to be like Bernie and AOC, and stop voting for Trump’s bills.
EDIT: I’m gonna catch some Z’s because I’m not gonna stay up waiting for you to gather a lack of evidence to support claims you made up in your own head. Might as well try to accuse me of being DB Cooper or something else.
lol, hope you had a good sleep, x
That’s cause “tankie” is right wing propaganda for exactly that reason. It blunts progressive discourse dead in its tracks.
What’s worse is that sometimes I can’t tell if it’s Right Wing trolls or truly insane hard leftists.
I consider myself hard left progressive, but I have caveats like anyone. Tankies are so cartoonish, I don’t know how to react.
Yeah you’ll never know for sure. Actual tankies are what like a small subset of the small percent of progressives. Fractions of a fraction. Statistically they are non-existent. There is an outsized presense online. So one could reason that most of them you encounter are acting in bad faith. It’s been a very effective weapon on information warfare.
My philosophy is to abide by the oldest rule of the internet. Don’t feed the trolls.
It pisses me off to no end when people conflate legitimate criticism of Democrats with tankie rhetoric.
Last election season went something like this:
Progressives: “Please stop sending weapons to a genocidal maniac who is using them to murder children in order to grab land. And stop actively protecting said genocidal maniac from consequences in the international community.”
Establisment: “STFU tankie!”
Maybe if progressives in partisan primary states registered as Democrats and voted in the primaries, they wouldn’t be complaining about all the centrists in office.🤔
What primary? The DNC shut down real primaries last election. To the point where undecided was the protest vote.
A race between Biden, Williamson, and Phillips isn’t a real primary.
A real primary would have been something like Biden, Newsom, Whitmer, and maybe Shapiro.
There is no point voting in a rigged primary.
The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
Are you implying there was a Democratic presedential primary that didn’t break it’s own rules to make sure Biden was the only candidate on the ballot (edit) in many states (/edit)?
If so, you’re living in a fantasy.
This is the one-two step for Democratic party apologists.
-
Blame leftists for their lack of representation in the party.
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Rig the processes to make sure that the left wing of the party has no internal representation.
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Goto step one.
The best part of this dance from their view? Internal party politics and processes are boring, and the media won’t cover it when they cheat.
No. The presidential incumbent primary is a joke. I’m referring to the congressional primary that saw less than 20% attendance. Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel. POTUS can use drawdown power, but that can be challenged by Congress.
We have three branches of government, two of which are elected, yet people pretend we have one vote every four years.
Congress is the primary approval for military aid for Israel.
lmfao I love when liberals are fully committed
Firstly, I’m a progressive. Secondly, what is incorrect about that statement?
What if i told you, you could get more done towards your moral project if you werent an absolutionist? Would you continue?
That sounds like tankie rhetoric
-
So you’re ok with centrists supporting and actively protecting perpetrators of genocide?
What about my comment gave you that impression? I’m saying that if progressives voted in Democratic primaries with the same conviction they use to criticize the DNC, we wouldn’t have as many centrists in Congress.
Democratic congressional primaries are decided by ~20% of registered Democrats. You can look at PAC funding and vote for the Democrat that isn’t funded by AIPAC, who will have a better chance of winning the election than a third-party protest vote.
My point is that Democrats, whether progressive or centrist, shouldn’t be supporting this. It shouldn’t matter (on this particular topic) if progressives aren’t voting; I’m not willing to give centrist Democrats a pass and will condemn them just the same.
I keep hearing that progressives aren’t voting in the numbers that they should be, but there might be another problem: there simply aren’t that many progressives to get offices. As a “Reddit refugee”, I realized that we are overrepresented in a lot of these online echo chambers.
I’ve been left of the Democrats and stumping progressives/greens/independents since the 90s. Most people don’t even know if they live in one of the 30 partisan primary states. Copious amounts of New Yorkers were turned away at the polls in 2016 because they didn’t know they had to be registered as a Democrat to vote for Bernie in the primary. I’m sure that happened in other partisan primary states as well.
Yet in my experience, asking a progressive to register as a Democrat is the fastest way to get them to stop listening, even though it’s statistically far more effective than voting third-party. People need to stop voting with their feelings and start playing the game that we’ve been losing for decades.
Accountability is one think these people will not take. Has me questioning where they get off calling themselves progressive. They can’t even handle the mere suggestion which is evident by the number of downvotes that occurs when it’s mentioned.
For sure. It’s also easier to shout into an echo chamber and get an upvote than it is to convince someone in the street to take action. I hold no respect for apathy.
That exactly what you’re doing
Here, yes. This is far from all that I do.
Completely wrong, Tankies weren’t just promoting primarying Biden, a pretty obvious lost cause from the start given his incumbent status, they were promoting voting against Biden in the generals. That is NOT advocacy against genocide in Gaza. Trump is a single-state supporter.
Biden was sending litteral tanks to israel
Incorrect, Biden sold Tank Munitions to Israel, but the nuance here is that Tankies has always described militarily aggressive, dictatorship loving, self-proclaiming Communists otherwise that would be fair.
To even bring up Biden is whataboutism.
Except that there are 2 groups: progressives and a more extreme left group. Progressives who were arguing in good faith against genocide were lumped in with the latter group.
The establishment Democrats were engaging in censorship and suppression of anything that was critical of Israel. Now Trump has stepped up this censorship/suppression, but it was definitely happening under Biden.
I’m a consequencialist, so while I acknowledge there is a minority of extremists who think burning down the state itself is progressive, I personally don’t view them as such. If anything I think those extremists were being prodded along and supported by the conservatives who benefit from splitting the left and also agitated by Tankie psyops who benefit from the USA’s fall from grace.
Just elect 60 democrats to the senate so we can get universal healthcare, reduce homelessness, tax the rich, reform the courts, expand ballot access, draw fair election maps, remove money from elections, protect human rights, and protect the environment. Everything I just listed are core DNC stances. If we can’t do that then we’re just going to suffer on this wild ride until societal collapse and replacement with something worse.
Meanwhile the dems sent billions of dollar worth of actual tanks to genocide people in Gaza lmao
This is just a meme designed to divide people who share common interests in opposing corruption and to turn them against each other instead.
This is a common misconception, but leftists and liberals do not share interests. Liberals are reactionaries who wish to return to a previous status quo they enjoyed, same as conservatives, but they disagree about what point to return to.
Leftists seek to move forward and dismantle capitalism. Liberals would rather (and often do) ally with conservatives to defeat leftist goals, because they know no society enjoying the fruits of post-capitalism would wish to return to the Obama era.
If they weren’t willing to do what it took to stop Trump in 2024, we’re not on the same side. At best, they’re useful idiots for the fascists.
Lol, it’s kinda funny, I might not be fully awake, but I read this as “if they [the democratic party] weren’t willing to do the bar minimum [not supporting a genocide] to stop Trump… At best, they’re useful idiots for the fascists.”
What a stupid post. Yeah it’s progressives’ fault mango Mussolini is POTUS /s. This is a talking point manufactured by MAGA handlers that some broadly Dem-supporting people choose to broadcast, now outside the US. This is a type of brainrot that undermines critical thinking, divides the left, and helps elect the right. Canada deserves better
Progressives are separate from tankies. You can have leftist ideals without supporting authoritarians.
Your democrats sent more tanks than the USSR
There was a lot of pressure for the most banal, milquetoast, form of representation ever in the form of having a Palestinian speaker at the Democratic national convention with a vetted speech that involved nothing that would have criticized Israel at all.
Even that was too far.
Either the progressives are powerful enough that you have to take them seriously and give them concessions, or they aren’t and you get to ignore them.
What you don’t get to do is give them nothing and blame them when you lose. Or, I guess you do if you’d prefer to lose the general over letting a progressive win the primary.
Huh, funny that, who knew there is a lot of levers and controls that a primary winner, even one that lost the general, gets.
Progressives are not leftists, they are centrist liberals. No matter how many times Sanders calls himself a socialist, he is never going to call for abolishing private ownership of the means of production.
No one calls themselves a tankie. It is a pejorative term for a progressive. It is used to silence legitimate criticism and helps right-shift politics
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It’s the term that describes those communists who cheered on the Soviet Union’s violent crushing of the 1956 Hungary revolution protests.
The term is often used when someone claims they support leftist ideals but pushes for authoritarianism.
I get the original etymology. Nowadays it’s carelessly used and appropriated like ‘woke’
What about “lib” and “zio”?
Those are kind of new and exciting. All the kids are doing it.
I’m pretty sure those are used accurately as specific types of fascists.
the Soviet Union’s violent crushing of the 1956 Hungary revolution protests.
Did you know that was recently revealed (through Trump’s jfk doc dump) to be yet another CIA backed fake color revolution?
Your democrats cheered at Israel violent crushing of the 2023 Gaza uprising.
You’re such an hypocrite
So Bernie and AOC are tankies to you?
It’s pretty easy to find them. Here, I’ll draw some out for you:
Mao and Stalin were just as evil as Hitler. China is engaging in a genocide of the Uyghur people. Putin is a genocidal war criminal fighting a war of imperialism.
Was Biden as evil as Hitler? He did send a lot of tanks to israel
So anyone who doesn’t engage in Double Genocide Theory, a recognized form of Holocaust denial, is a “tankie”.
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Really not beating the allegations that “tankie” is just an ill-defined snarl word
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A tankie is anyone who objects when I do this: shits pants
Wow, lots of tankies in here taking the bait lol
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Tankie is in no way a pejorative for Progressive. Hell progressives are usually the ones using it. I wouldn’t even say tankies pretend to be Progressive.
tankie
I’m a litteral tankie. Yes, I own a tank. Quit assuming my political opinion, it’s just a hobby
Tankie are leftists, they are not progressives.
Left is Progress, Right is Conservation of old ways (Conservative)
Tankies are not Leftists, even
Trump is progressive by that logic because he is dismantling the old ways.
The old ways didn’t have a system of laws to prevent discrimination and unethical greed. He is taking us back there.
That’s the very old ways. You can’t conserve them when they are gone.
Of course one could argue that there has never been a time with a system of laws to prevent discrimination and unethical greed.
People are alive today that remember the times without restriction very very clearly. Namely the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the following welfare programs that saved or improved millions of lives, politicians on the right want to tear that down.
And progressives are not leftists, they are centrist liberals. Sanders is never going to call abolishing private ownership of the means of production.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re right.
Because some other db0 user is angry with me and is downvoting everything I say regardless of content.
helps elect the right
Trump, the farthest right viable candidate, was elected because he got the most votes.
Regardless of your feelings about her, Kamala was the most viable opposition to Trump.
Some people were most active being anti-Kamala.
In your opinion, did the anti-Kamala influencers hurt Trump’s election, or did they help Trump’s election?
Anti- Biden/Kamala influencers helped elect Trump. The biggest of those influencers were the mainstream media. The double standard of reporting (Biden/Harris vs Trump) is very well documented. (And the ring-kissing is approaching authoritarian levels now.) Ideas that actual grassroots would-be Democrat voters sabotaged the the Democrats’ success in the election is much less certain, but perhaps a more attractive version of reality than the big-money-funded pro right-wing system we’re up against. Less in-fighting amongst the left please
Kamala is right wing. Trump is further right wing. Guess who is gonna win?
She was objectively much better than Trump. Hopefully in the future Americans have the single transferable vote for presidential elections so they can vote for other candidates in other parties.
This is bullshit though, please actually explain how Kamala is the most viable opposition to Trump? Trump is far right, and Kamala is a centrist conservative. America is further right than you think it is, Kamala is in no way shape or form an opposition.
Kamala is right wing. Trump is further right wing, guess who is gonna win?
You mentioned opposition, then where is your opposition party? Trump is a by product, you just explained how you get fascism.
Kamala was not right wing. She ran on a fucking wealth tax. You morons had your heads so far up your own asses that you didn’t notice.
Just a Wealth tax lmfao, and thats it? Fuck. How’d that work out?
Shes a neoliberal and def right wing. America is so far right wing you think anyone that calls themself a democrat is an opposition. America’s two party system keeps going further right
But demonrats bad, what’s so hard to understand?
“Both parties are the same” is muddying the waters in ways that always benefits the fascists.
They didn’t say both parties were the same. In fact they made a point to distinguish the two I think. They just said both were right wing. There’s lots of different right wing parties in the world. They’re not all the same. Not even remotely the same.
They did not distinguish the parties in any meaningful way. Right and left are just labels, and if you make your entire personality about purity testing most of the world into not being left enough to be in your in-group, you will cultivate no worker solidarity.
Kamala was the most viable opposition to Trump.
You really believe that, huh?
At the moment, yes. I’m also frequently wrong, there’s too much information in the world for me to process it all, so that’s the best conclusion I can make with the information I have.
If you can make an argument for anyone else being a more viable candidate against Trump, then give it to me.
Exactly what the other guy said.
Who, in our shitty 2 party system, had a better chance?
Anyone else. Throw Bernie’s half animated corpse up there as the candidate. Congrats he would’ve won. Because he wasnt a cop trying to get elected to the anticop party, nor far right economically trying to get elected to the center right party.
Bernie’s name wasn’t on my ballot so he couldn’t have been a viable opponent. The only person on the ballot with any chance of beating Trump was Harris.
Bear in mind, I think the Dems could have run a much a stronger ticket with someone other than Harris but that doesn’t change the fact that she was the only viable competition in the election that actually happened.
Cool, you know you can write in the candidate, right?
In any case if dems wanted to be elected, they could try not being republican. Even in the face of fascism no self respecting person would vote for a republican.
The key wordyou seems to be missing is “viable.”
Would love to have whatever drugs you need to think writing someone in would have actually been a good idea
The fact you’re reduced her to a cop is showing you’re headfirst in the koolaid
She was literally responsible for police reform. You know, shit like making them wear body cams and undergo training to recognise bias, as well as community programs to get people back into the community as opposed to branded criminals for life. You know, the shit you want to happen. And all that for one state - one of your most progressive.
But over the years, she has proudly labelled herself both a “top cop” and a “progressive prosecutor”.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/12/kamala-was-a-cop-black-people-knew-it-first/
She’d even proudly declared herself California’s “top cop” in 2016 —two years after the Ferguson protests. Marcotte has things backward. In a climate where Democrats still felt they had to pander to the law-and-order crowd, “Kamala is a cop” was the nuance.
These legitimate critiques, not trolls hiding behind computer screens, gave the “Kamala is a cop” meme its power. Black Americans, who have wildly disproportionate contact with police and prisons, had cause to be wary of a presidential candidate, even a Black woman, who not only made her bones in the criminal justice system but adduced her work there to the case for her presidency. On Black Twitter, the meme was a reminder, not an explanation. Early on, Harris struggled to attract Black voters. Some were concerned about her electability, while others were truly mistrustful of her record and her promise to be the “progressive prosecutor” candidate.
https://www.c-span.org/program/campaign-2016/new-york-delegation-breakfast/450152
At 00:32:19 her speech begins, which has (via the transcript):
ELECTED FIRST WOMAN OF COLOR TO BE DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN 2003. [APPLAUSE] AND I NOW STAND BEFORE YOU AS THE TOP COP OF THE BIGGEST STATE IN THE COUNTRY, NO OFFENSE ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN. [LAUGHTER]
Bernie, AOC, Andrew Yang off the top of my head
Bernie is too old, didn’t want to run. AOC was too young until less than a month before the general election, didn’t want to run. Andrew Yang is actually kind of a weirdo in the bad take a look closer (check out the description of his Forward Party).
Anybody else?
So you asked for who is better, but since you dont like any of them, they wont do. Rocket dragon is the decider of all things politicians guys.
You should have just said so in the first place and we coulda saved time.
I love Bernie and AOC both, but what’s your plan, hold a gun to their head and force them to run?
Which of those 3 were nominated?
I’m not saying they wouldn’t have been better options. They simply weren’t options.
Gee I wonder why they werent options!
Lmao
She lost to trump
Im an european socialist and thought tankies were a degoratory term for authoritarian communists. I did not think the few commies in the states mattered that much in your public debate. Or am misunderstanding everything about the meme?
Democrats are now so rabidly pro-war, they accuse anyone criticizing the defense industry or forever wars of being tankies.
I remembering being called Tankie for wanting to defund the military for Israel and using the money for Ukraine and helping the poor, as the money for Israel vastly outspent the money spent for Ukraine and most social services.
So shift the money from a genocide to a proxy war. How progressive of you.
(It’s one of the few things liberals like, so I have to pretend I’m for it.)
I did not think the few commies in the states mattered that much in your public debates.
There’s some influencers in the states with pretty wide reach; I know a few people irl who are vaguely leftist in ideals, especially as they all belong to one or more marginalized groups, who didn’t vote because “Kamala is a cop” and “I draw the line at genocide” and “at least my hands will be clean”.
So they aren’t tankies, they wouldn’t vote for trump in a million years, but on the fence about voting at all and some “leftist” social media influencers pushed them into the not voting camp.
This is just my small scale anecdote, I can’t say if my limited population sample actually means anything nationally.
(Sadly now, they are all absolutely crashing out over the state of affairs, like we didn’t know this was all going to happen under Trump)
Thank you for the answer.
In our political landscape all flavours of leftists agree from democratic socialists to soviet nostalgics and anarchists agree Trump is a fascist.
Many socialists do not vote here, because they say there is no parties representing them. But no sane person would even consider Trump an option, liberal or even moderate conservative.
It makes the states very exotic for us and then I got confused about the tankie meme, because now I am not sure what is meant by tankie.
Here it loosely means someone who fantasize about a benevolent soviet empire. But the old school commies here hates fascists with a passion and dream about tanks driving into Berlin after WWII, hence the name tankie.
Back to the meme. I get confused because the people I call tankies will removed and moan about centrists and moderates until the second coming of Lenin or whatever. But they are also the first ones to try organize an anti-fascist response against the ultra conservative populists over here.
American politics are hard to understand from the outside and it has been even harder the last couple of months.
moan about centrists and moderates until the second coming of Lenin or whatever
It has everything to do with power dynamics. The American centrists and moderates maintain the limit of allowed mainstream political discourse as there is no distinction between a liberal and leftist. In fact every attempt is made to maintain them as synonyms.
In America centrists and moderates define themselves as leftist, and they view anything further left of themselves to be something like unchecked authoritarianism.
Thusly the American right-wing gets to successfully operate from the default position of linking leftism to authoritarianism in all discourse and debate.
So most of the American Left is just plain stuck trying to escape this paradigm because the basic terms don’t have the same coherency.
Correct me If I understand you wrong.
“Tankie in an american context means everyone who take part in the debate but are left of the left wing in the democratic party?”
If that is correct a lot of memes make more sense. Because tankies were I come from (as the name implies) are normally not inherently against military, but a lot of memes are about tankies being anti war.
You’re not wrong but more/also that the term is used rather incoherently in an American context.
Thank you once again. I wont pretend I understand it entirely but a lot of the debate and calling of names makes more sende now. In Europe we define between conservatism, liberalism and socialism. And people often identify by where they are in the mix, if they are into politics
The word ‘socialism’ is not allowed in American political discourse. That’s why we have to call for ‘universal healthcare’. We need ‘affordable housing’ because building new public housing was outlawed two decades ago. We can barely use the term ‘worker’ and have to approximate with ‘working class’ or ‘working families’.
We can’t even use the language of the left in America.
Many socialists do not vote here, because they say there is no parties representing them.
Aye, there’s the rub
Oh no dems are not perfect let’s Satan/Hitler win to teach them a lesson!
Like bruh try won’t learn but let’s get rid of Satan/Hitler first. And ill be first to turn on them.
If you’re willing to sacrifice one minority group to Satan, why should members of other minority groups not believe they are next?
100% agree.
But just to put in perspective, 1 side said ill f over 1 group and other side said “ill do way more than that casual”. And in fact since 2 months of getting in are actively trying to f over the world.
Voting DNC was also temp truce against GOP. I rather be mildly disappointed than fearing for future. If DNC won ill be pushing for more progressive stuff but now we got to work to get nation back to “normal”. Its like wanting to plant a tree but some jerk poured sand in the hole. Now we got to undo this crap before progress can happen.
And that’s the thing, the Dems losing doesn’t teach them any lesson, they’re not going to pivot to the left because they lost, they’ll only double down on neoliberalism.
DNC logic
DNC will throw an election before moving to the left. Particularly when the topic of discussion involves a certain rogue nation in the Middle East.
Yeah i wish I could confidently tell you no you are wrong. Which is why we cant place hopes in DNC. This is not about dems winning. Its about gop losing. Once they are out. Let them dnc get their what they deserve.
From the DNC’s perspective, going left lost against Nixon of all people, during a deeply unpopular war. Going left was crushed by Regan. Both Bush presidents won by attacking centrist candidates from the right. Clinton ran very centrist campaigns and won. Obama was at best more practical than ideological. Carter and Biden picked up the pieces of disasters, but that didn’t translate in to long term gains, and neither of them got credit for what wins they delivered the left.
I agree the DNC should go left, but I understand it’s hard to make the case based on the last 60 years of experience.
Anyone basing strategy on the last sixty years instead of the last four is too stupid to be taken seriously. Hence the US’ reputation as he dumbest nation.
I’d reply that anyone can justify any conclusion if they’re allowed to pick and choose the evidence under consideration. We should aim to produce a political theory that accounts for decades of history and change.
Sure… But that political theory is still explicitly illegal in the US and can get you imprisoned if you manage to get elected. Barring the obvious, we can’t base our political theory on entirely different material conditions experienced by entirely different people. The number of voters that were alive 60 years ago is miniscule, and the number of voters that voted 60 years ago is going to be less than 1% in the next election.
Even supposing those people were physically still alive their material conditions have changed so dramatically they aren’t the same voters.
By ignoring the change of conditions and change of voters mentality, you set yourself up for ‘surprise’ failures, like clinton in 2016, which all leftists knew clinton would lose.
If you just look at the last four years and the material conditions people face, you’re far less likely to overvalue old elections that have nothing whatsoever in common with modern elections.
they’re not going to pivot to the left because they lost
We see that exact thing happening now. They haven’t learned a thing.
We need more people involved in primaries and less voting based on TV ads.
Nancy Pelosi was in a hospital in Europe and actively blocked AOC from taking a leadership role right after the election. The fucking Democrats censured the single member of their party that called Trump out on his BS during his victory lap. Then Schumer shit the bed a couple weeks ago.
Establishment Dems are actively preventing any kind of progress, all while whining about how we need to do something!
If so many people refused to vote for Democrats because they were too far right, then the Dems should have moved left. If Leftists are too small a group to matter and the Dems are right to court the right then stop complaining when Leftists don’t vote for you. You can’t have it both ways.
Dems are not progressive they move to who votes. Team lefty hate the choices so opt out. Meanwhile DNC sees right voters consistently vote and move to court them. DnC is not on our side they are on their side. They said they are not the opposition party. We all know that. But they are opportunists so more left votes since they will move left. Especially if the GOP is no longer a viable option. Hence why I say turn on them after the GOP is voted to hell.
Tankies want Hitler to win and the country to collapse. They are like evangelicals deeply wanting the apocalypse to happen to punish all the people who didn’t agree with them.
So this outcome is perfect for them because despite their whinging, leftists are deeply unpopular in the US amongst the majority of the population.
Tankies want Hitler to win and the country to collapse. They are like evangelicals deeply wanting the apocalypse to happen to punish all the people who didn’t agree with them.
Your analogy is even more apt than that. A lot of them are accelerationists/anti-electoralists too, who hold the faith-based belief that making the world worse will magically cause the working class to unite and overthrow their oppressors. The belief is based upon the words of a dead authoritarian and has no historical data to suggest that it is remotely accurate. They are happy to give vulnerable populations as blood sacrifices because of their faith in it somehow resulting in a better world.
I hate that i agree you are right.
Like bruh try won’t learn but let’s get rid of Satan/Hitler first. And ill be first to turn on them.
The democrats have literally funded far-right republican candidates because they know you’re operating on this logic. Trump himself was part of this “pied piper” strategy.
Yup as other said they will move to lose before they go left. Think about why that is. Cause if the gop is gone they are the next target. So they do crap like everyone mentioned. They just want donations. GOP is their boogeyman.
The strategy outlined is vote to make gop not viable. Then progressive dems will have more free to form new party. Threat of gop prevents this. Afterwards DNC replaces gop as right party. If that plan doesnt sit well with you please vote third party. Its a drop in bucket but oceans are made of drops.
Honestly I don’t understand the logic of that approach at all. What makes you think the GOP will eventually become nonviable? I feel like people making this argument in the past relied on the assumption that young people and minorities would always be consistent democratic voters, but that hasn’t held up, because they blew it. If you recognize them as being shit, then what gives you the confidence in them to think that they’ll achieve total political dominance?
If that plan doesnt sit well with you please vote third party. Its a drop in bucket but oceans are made of drops.
I do, and I appreciate you respecting this choice.
Very fair point and i acknowledge it could 100% be naive if demographics dont age out gop members. But I do. Why? Well personal experience. 2016 I hated dnc and got swooped up in the Donald. 8 years later I tried to explain to everyone this is the same crap and not to be deceived. My message didn’t reach but people may learn the hard way. If next election stays the same demographics then I got to find a new path. Cause you’re right.
As for political dominance, There are only 2 viable choices. At some point age out and constant right moves the DNC will be the less radical right party. Plus mixed with blue no matter who (for a few years anyway), 3 stock market crashes with gop presidents in 20 years, measles out breaks, and I suspect stronger hurricanes etc, they cant keep it up.
If those 20 mil votes for biden came for Harris or even third party there would have been a huge shake up like I described above could have come sooner. Don’t let anyone discourage your vote!
constant right moves the DNC will be the less radical right party.
I don’t believe it works that way, if it did, Kamala and Clinton would’ve both won. The DNC is already the less radical right party.
The problem is that voters are more complex than a fixed point on a left/right axis that votes for whoever’s closer to them. For instance, when Democrats pivoted to the right on immigration and tried to pass themselves off as border hawks, what happened was that they threw away a moral argument that they had previously used to criticize the Republicans. People didn’t say, “Oh, now that the Democrats have come around on immigration, I’ll vote for them,” they said, “You were calling them racist over this not long ago, but now you’re adopting the same stance? So the Republicans were right and your criticism was opportunistic and full of shit. Why should I trust your criticism of them on other points?” They actually tried to criticize the Republicans from the right on the issue, citing the fact that the Republicans didn’t go along with Biden’s anti-immigration bill and saying, “We’re the ones who actually want to secure the border, they’re all talk.” Nobody really bought it, and ofc if you were pro-immigration you were expected to still vote Democrat since it’s taken for granted that they’re the “lesser evil.” Meanwhile, this led to a collapse in support among Hispanics, many of whom were willing to support the Democratic party on the basis that Trump’s anti-immigration stance was racist, but when the Democrats shifted right on that issue, many didn’t see a significant difference on that front and voted Republican because they were more aligned on other, cultural issues.
3 stock market crashes with gop presidents in 20 years, measles out breaks, and I suspect stronger hurricanes etc, they cant keep it up.
I don’t have that much faith in the average voter. The democrats will have an advantage in the next presidential election (although they could fuck it up), but after that, like 7 years from now, people won’t remember or care - just like they didn’t care enough about Trump’s first term to not elect him again.
I mean, that’s the way it works with a two party system where they both suck. People see the Republicans sucking and turn to the Democrats because they’re the only other option. Then they see the Democrats sucking and turn to the Republicans because they’re the only other option. You can’t just rely on the other side being bad because if they’re not in charge, people will forget how bad they are. You have to go all the way back to Reagan and H.W. to find a time with two consecutive presidents of the same party - and recently, people haven’t even been going for incumbents, it’s been switching back and forth every four years.
I agree with your points. Not to sound misogyny but I strongly believe it was too early for women. Need a mass die off of elderly jerks before ill believe it. Black men had voting rights before women and we just got a half black president only very recently.
People just need to see past last 4 years or even few months and know what dems are.
Dem betrayal is expected. Don’t bother holding them to higher standard. They are lesser evil. Don’t get annoyed and not vote. Vote third party if anything. Don’t let the greater evil win ever. We do that we will get ratchet effect. Like you described.
Americans are children who get abused by both parents but they think Mom is better because she hits them less.
You can thank the spoiler effect from first-past-the-post for that. I will take 5 lashes instead of 20.
Great. See us in 8 years when you’re supporting a dem who wants 8 active genocides above a repub who wants 10 active genocides. This is what your weird version of liberal “pragmatic” utilitarianism will get you.
I’ll leave you with some Mike Davis:
In biology, one learns about a certain species of caterpillar that can only cross the threshold of metamorphosis by seeing its future butterfly. Proletarian subjectivity does not evolve by incremental steps but requires nonlinear leaps, especially by way of moral self-recognition through solidarity with the struggle of a distant people. Even when this contradicts short-term self-interest, as in the famous cases of Lancashire cotton workers’ enthusiasm for Lincoln and later for Gandhi, such efforts not only anticipate a world beyond capitalism, they concretely advance the working class’s march toward it.
Socialism, in other words, requires nonutilitarian actors, whose ultimate motivations and values arise from structures of feeling that others would deem spiritual. Marx rightly scourged romantic humanism in the abstract, but his personal pantheon — Prometheus and Spartacus, Homer, Cervantes, and Shakespeare — affirmed a heroic vision of human possibility.
Nice strawman. Americans wouldn’t have to choose one of two subpar options if they actually had proportional representation. That way the people can avoid the aipac politicians completely without throwing away their vote.
A strawman, you say? How unfair of me. Let me confirm with you first.
If, in 8 years (assuming your grand plans for ranked choice or whatever have yet to take hold), the choice is between a democrat who wants 8 genocides and a republican who wants 10, which would you vote for?
It seems your real criticisms are about FPTP and the failure of mainstream media
They’re on the list, yeah.
You have to work within the reality you have, not the one you wish you had.
It will vote for the lesser evil or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it is told. It puts the ballot in the fucking basket!
The Republicans Should’ve Faced Way More Criticism During The 2024 Presidential Campaign
Kamala Harris campaigned with Liz Cheney. The fuck is wrong with you?
Committing genocide and Imperialist plunder on the entire planet is being “slightly corrupt?” Moreover, where are the Communists that don’t also hate the Republicans?
Democrats in full force with the projection.
They wouldn’t call themselves slightly corrupt in that case…
“Slightly” hahaha.
Is “slightly corrupt” the new euphemism for “aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide”?
Is “slightly corrupt” the new euphemism for “aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide”?
I don’t think it sounds right to call non-voters “slightly corrupt”.
You hold the self-proclaimed good guys to higher standards than the overt asshole, genious.
You feel it’s hypocrisy because you know deep down they’re scums and you need to resolve the cognitive dissonance. You think of yourself as a good person, but you selfishly voted for the “lesser evil”. It’s only lesser evil for you. For foreigners, they’re the same kind of evil
Honestly the fact that the entire country keeps getting mad at Democrats while taking an “Aw shucks, who hasn’t tried to do a coup de tat or shifted blame for your actions onto a minority group. All is forgiven!” Attitude with Republicans, is…
Just fucking bizarre.
