

While I get what you’re meaning, I am going to ask a question: do you treat criminals the same?
The way you see military, many of whom are from low income without many means of survival, as monsters because they join a government system that promises social services that harms so many. So a means to an end.
A criminal will steal or murder for similar reasons a person joins the military - except instead of social services, they’re taking what they need to survive. So do you think they deserve humiliation and degradation? Heck, prison food is similar.
Both are forced into making morally wrong choices that affect others outside of themselves but instead of anger at the system that creates these situations, you insult the people. It’s reactionary.
This from someone who knows multiple leftists who changed because of the military. So I see belittling them online as counterproductive to any type of coalition being made as it separates them from others who may hold similar if not the same beliefs.








So I’m not going to argue because again, I said: I understand where the sediment comes from.
I want to address what concerns me about this type of agression. When someone does something for so long, it becomes part of their personality, their being. So insulting the military can come off as insulting the person rather than the role/entity. Especially for Americans, who do not have much outside of propaganda being fed from every angle and barely an education, many barely read anymore. If they can barely critically think, do you think they’re at fault or are they raised/trained to just believe it? This is the general population, not elite class who have better education purposely.
The middle class in American just a mean of the lower class and upper class, the stat you’re referencing is basing it around any household 50-100K - household, which means two parent income. So two parents making 50K would be low income in my opinion because each person is making 25K which is about 12 an hour. The lower percent was 85K and up I think showing that below 85K in an household leads to more enrollment in military. It’s just that the phrase “middle class” doesn’t exist like it used to as prices have rose and driven that class further down. This study even polled and it shows similar in 2025 so I’m supporting the data you read with the thought that people are surviving well on 80K and below. The main statistic that I want to point at is a majority joined for money and education.
Many soldiers also endorsed “pecuniary” motivations (i.e., 88.3% wanted to earn money, 81.2% wanted to obtain educational benefits
Now to touch on that part about class, the elite class has no law to follow in the US. You’ve seen it, we’ve all seen it. So why bring up Epstein? It’s linked but not relevant to what we’re speaking about. Yes, he’s a criminal and a pedophile and deserved to be punished to death but that doesn’t relate to poverty stricken individuals who I referenced resorting to a life of crime by societal standards. This type of conversation diversion is used by right-wingers like Jordan Peterson and the rest of the grifters to avoid talking about the actual point. Again, it’s reactionary - you’re using pedophilia crime from the elite to compare to poverty related crime which is galaxies away on a morality spectrum. Killing someone from being on the brink of death for a way to survive is different than owning an island and sex trafficking humans. The reason is to get a reaction in the moral play. You can read why it’s reactionary due to the chain of you acknowledging the relation of poverty to crime and military by stating the statistic of the military being middle class so why mention a upper class criminal again?
Again, I understand your sediment. I’d just rather work towards deprogramming others who may be leaving the military or whatever relation to it with some grace in conversation (mostly in real life as this is what online banter is nowadays and probably always has and will) rather than attacking and letting the right (that can be reasoned with, I know some can’t be reason with) grow larger due to more alienation.