Literally not talking about them in anyway that designating the difference matters. Clearly speaking of the left leaning folks in America.
Also politics aren’t real. They’re made up. The definition of a liberal has and will continue to change.
I would argue some are. I think the aggression towards Obama from the right has genuinely convinced people of someone who he is not. I’m not saying he’s free from criticism but they are acting like he was really into bombing kids which is a good tag line for criticizing a sitting president but looking back in hindsight he really did not cause as many casualties as is pushed.
He also didn’t increase drone warfare the technology shifted. Under Bush we didn’t have that and what we got instead was a ton of casualties. Obama made the very obviously intelligent choice of keeping his men out of harms way. Why wouldn’t you do that?
Giving billions to the banks, bailouts, etc. that wasn’t fun to do. I’m sure as president deals are made but the economy was shit and not because of him. He managed to recover us from 2008 economic worry and had 8 years of solid economy afterwards.
I’m sorry I see the sentiment of the criticisms but, and this is what I think people fail to really embrace and understand in a realistic actual like this is a real life kind of way, what the fuck else was he gonna do? Get soldiers killed en masse? Let the banking crap sink the country and demolish regular people’s lives?
Nah. Obama was the best we had in my life time and best we had in 70 years. I’d give his presidency a B-. Hindsight is 20/20 everything looks more clear in the rearview but when you’re in it, decisions have to be made and I don’t think he ever made decisions that were selfish or intentionally harmful like many other presidents do all the time
But on the other side of that each time that happens it furthers the power pulling.
FDR whether he knew or not lead to Nixon and Trump. Not saying it’s the wrong choice I’m just saying I personally don’t think it’s the right one.
It’s like a fight. Once someone introduced a gun or knife the situation gets very serious
I didn’t respond to the wrong person. My point is fantasy, ideals and desires are nice. But then apply reality.
The baby killing machine is always running. Lives being lost is awful and so is war.
But you are all being extremely disingenuous about it. Read how people act on this matter, as if Obama is stroking himself over killing kids.
This is why people genuinely fall for pizza gate. Cause people are too stupid to understand hyperbole
And is that right? You like that I’m understanding?
Okay sure you know me best I guess?
I’d prefer that honestly
Like chess with a pigeon
Roll my God damn eyes.
You’re dramatic as hell and it does not highlight the point you’re making. When you look at other wars the death toll are far higher because Obama is literally explicitly NOT doing what your foolish ass is saying.
Trump happened because a bunch of bozos like you ate up everything they pushed on Obama and now they know how to slam the news cycle and plant your brain how they want it. Good job buddy you have no idea how to tell reality from crap.
Well to be quite frank with you. The US didn’t ratify the literal protocols that talk about protecting victims of conflict. So in all legal senses, they didn’t by their own metric. So if you obey the legal system, which I personally don’t entirely embrace, no he didn’t at all by American legal definitions. Sorry.
Now do I think the military is shitty and does shit? Yes. They’re literally a monopoly on violence. If not them, then someone else would be. They’re dogs of the state. I would never work for a state in the realm of harming people I think it’s disgusting but the world isn’t mine to control and some people are out there to hurt you. So what do you do?
Now this drone shit is fuckin dumb because is Obama flying these drones himself and plotting out missions to target the most civilians and innocent he can? Is he googling a list of brown kids to blow p? No. He’s listening to his staff and generals and making decisions often with the idea of civilian lives in harms way. Don’t believe me?
I think it’s roughly 200,000 folks died in the middle east fighting since 2001 to 2023 when they left. That’s 20 years. 10k a year average but I’m sure it’s not steady or consistent. Afghanistan and Iraq I believe both have a population of 45million roughly so 80million. That’s 10k deaths a year per 80 million folks.
In Ukraine alone it’s estimated it’s estimated to be 70,000. In three years. Population 38million.
In Palestine it’s believed to be upwards of 58,000. In two years. Population 5million.
Those are the numbers. So what do you make of it?
You’re gonna say war shouldn’t happen. Yeah I fuckin agree but the truth is America is at war. And pulling out isn’t really the option you imagine it doesn’t just end there. They always really weren’t bombing like it is perceived, effort was made to reduce casualties on both sides and stability in the area was better with American presence.
It’s so easy to piss and shit and pick other people apart but I know you would’ve done a more shit job. Acting like Obama is the antichrist is fuckin goofy. It’s why we have Trump. It’s why we don’t get progressives because one shows the smallest sign of it and y’all act like they’re the devil if they make any errors. Y’all are eating Republican talking points.
LMFAO how is that your take away?
“The worst thing for a (liberal/socialist/leftist/progressive) is another (aforementioned word here)”
That’s the famous quote. Progress dies because everyone nitpicks it to deal. Obama wasn’t perfect therefore he is Hitler, that is what people think of this as.
Hindsight is 20/20.
But no. There was no criminal charges afoot this is why I’m calling y’all idealists. Do you think this country is or was or is going to be clean enough to do any of that, ever?
Maybe if you do some shady shit too to get it done. But by the book as you’re suggesting? No fuckin way.
Then go make it happen? Why can’t you?
Cause an entire apparatus is in the way? Go break it then why can’t you?
Because it’s designed to crush resistance at every turn with a monopoly on violence?
So what do you do besides cry online and accuse people of things they’re not you fuckin dolt.
If you’re this pissed cause I said Obama is a good president when placed beside contemporaries. You’re the bozo.
Literally a socialist. Nice try.
My agenda? The fuck?
You’re absolutely idealist. You think back then and now someone can march in and slap a new world that YOU like for everyone. Fuckin goobers.
I’m a socialist you bozo. None of this is what I want. But there’s a reason even if you got Sanders or the most socialist socialist on there they wouldn’t come out as you imagine. Hindsight is 20/20, no policy passed will ever ONLY help and inevitably the baby crushing machine will never not be running. So what do you do?
None of you are treating this like reality. You’re in his shoes. The country is handed to you. You pull out of the middle east, bust in new socialist policies and deflate military spending to fund them? Force affordable housing and open immigration?
Now you lost political influence on oil prices, your policies are hated because whether they work or not people are dumb and angry you changed stuff and you dropped military spending so now the military industrial complex is mad and pays politicians and judges to fight you every step of the way. Good job you got nothing done you’re worse than Obama.
It’s easy to talk shit. No solution will come of it, not even a worthy consideration. Obama had to manage the largest ship in history while it went through some bullshit and he’s black and accused of insane theories like he’s piloting the drones himself and laughing as he blows up children.
C’mon man ffs
Every politician is pro corporate? That’s how they have any money or political pull ever really.
A bail out and a collapse he didn’t orchestrate? Drone strikes in a war he didn’t start? Court stacking?
Your opinion of the world is very shallow, if you think he can wave his magic dick around to solve all this you’re crazy. Pulling out sounds easy but ask your father it takes strategy and the middle east we pulled out of under Biden was different than the one under Obama or the one under Bush.
You’re literally saying what I’m saying. Obama is literally lackluster and that’s half of why he’s the best we’ve had in 70 years or more for fuck sake. He’s a man, he’s not God and he definitely isn’t a pedophile or a grifter and he TRIED for things.
Bailing out the bank?
I personally believe the financial system in America is the core of corruption. I also know that corruption is why America has any standard of value. Not saying it’s right, just the truth.
In that situation, you just let the boat sink? Because morally it’s wrong? We like to pretend there would be no blowback from letting that happen but there would be and not in a good way. So he did what everyone else does, kick the can down the road. What do you do in that instance? Let it die and watch your economy shit the bed because you don’t like it or something?
You guys are such idealists man c’mon. This is why progressives don’t exist in America.
Lol I don’t think you understand and I don’t really understand what you’re talking about.
Nothing what you’re reading is being said. What is being said is what war crime did Bush do that Obama could’ve even gone after him for without tanking his own political position and also absolutely getting nowhere. Do you think after Nixon any president will face true legal repercussions? On top of that, dunno how old you are, but Bush’s whole presidency he was somehow seen as almost a little kid. He would goof, shrug say aw shucks and people would laugh and move on. In no universe I can imagine is Obama getting that guy prosecuted at all.
On top of that, aside from that. I don’t think Obama did any war crime. I think people who say that are genuinely uninformed or stupid. That’s a Republican fox news adjacent Joe Rogan ass take on Obama’s military practices.
Bush has far more casualties, Trump removed the ability to see how much he was drone striking and also illegal used drone strikes against Congress approval.
You’re not removing the military industrial complex from America, Obama is not going to be able to stop the war or solve anything really and that is clear in his handling of the situation. They attempted to train up a local force to hold peace which didn’t work and they pulled from aggressive military campaigning to drone strikes and policing. Where’s the war crime?
The last theater of war we engaged in (the cold war). They’re napalming folks by the gallon, slaying babies in Vietnam, overthrowing governments galore and attempting to assassinate De Gaulle, Castro and whoever else they don’t like.
Obama appears on the scene after all of this. After the CIA has gone rogue and the military industrial complex is both the heart and lungs of your economy. The war is already happening and your predecessors has made a lot of enemies for you. The fuck do YOU do in that instance? Really put yourself there don’t give me some crap liberal socialist answer. I’m a socialist myself, ain’t no fuckin way the world is letting me do what I wish to America in his shoes.
Unfortunately kinda yes. Ever had to make choices for a lot of people?? Usually the middle ground is where you’ll land.
Honestly I don’t agree at all. I think Obama’s greatest criticism is how he handled Russia/Georgia. But again that’s a tough call, you gonna drag America into a second theater of war when everyone is already mad about the first one and calling you a warmonger for literally no reason.
I just don’t think he’s made such awful decisions as you all are pushing.