We have a Catholic hospital here in the city where I live in Ontario. Being publicly funded makes what they do different from the American ones, but despite doing women’s health and obstetrics they don’t do tubal ligation unless it’s approved by their board, so even if you had a planned c section and were planning on having your tubal during the procedure, if you had to have your c section on an emergency basis because you labour early, they won’t do it. It’s so fucked up. It’s a good hospital but come on. It’s 2025, most Catholics use birth control. If you don’t want to do abortions, fine, but a tubal during a c section is really just saving someone a second surgery.
they don’t do tubal ligation unless it’s approved by their board
So they aren’t above doing the procedure entirely? They’re just persnickity about who is “worthy” of receiving the service?
If you don’t want to do abortions, fine
It’s crazy how a life-saving procedure is off-the-table on the “Pro-Life” grounds.
Well I mean what are called therapeutic abortions. Not someone who needs a D and C for tissue that didn’t pass spontaneously or something. The Americans are crazy in that regard. If a pregnancy is nonviable it isn’t therapeutic abortion.
If they don’t want to perform particular procedures based on their faith then they can call themseves a “Western Faith Therapy Centre”
“Western”? No, thank you.
I was going to suggest “Southern European” as an alternative but when you get down to it, everyone in their canon is from North Africa and the Middle East so maybe “Middle Eastern Faith Therapy Centre”?
Rather not, I’d be worried they’d “fuck up” on purpose.
I’d like to believe that the vast majority of doctors care about the lives of their patients and are capable of weighing that against the viability of the fetus.
Or even accidentally. I’d prefer my doctors to be familiar with the procedures they do. I don’t want the doctor that hasn’t done something in a decade of there’s another option reasonably available.
Same amount of body fluids.
I simply don’t want religious anything that is essential services.
What the fuck even is a catholic hospital? Praying the pain away? Offering a free confession close to death?
Surely they are not making use of modern medicine based on science that defies their beliefs.
They’re just hospitals. In fact they’re the biggest group of non-profit hospitals in the country. They are generally speaking a very good thing. The main problem as discussed here is their restrictions on reproductive care, which is a huge problem and should not be allowed. It isn’t even like to be employed there you must be Catholic, or even Christian.
Religion makes some BIG BUCKS so they invest in things like universities and hospitals.
A lot of historicla institutions have religious backing.
I’m not saying I support it. I just follow the money. (Tinfoil hat)
Catholicism is not Christian science. They don’t reject science, they just view abortion as ending life. If it weren’t for Catholic hospitals, huge swaths of the US (and much of the developing world) wouldn’t have access to healthcare at all.
They also said abortion up to 5.5 months was good for a very long time and then a random Pope changed it.
(It was Pious I think)
Didn’t most early hospitals in the west start as Christian hospitals?
I don’t want religious institutions near healthcare. Imposing attitudes of abstinence only moral puritanism on others. Thats not medicine. Like the WHO said 7 almost 8 years ago drug use needs to be globally decriminalized to remove attitudes of discrimination from health care settings. And at the time then nobody foresaw roe v wade being knocked back and turning the clock of social progress back 5/6 decades+ i wish j could say things cant get any worde but they can and they will. So we don’t need the people making things worse involved in the administration of medical care. We already have too many religious bigots with hoarded wealth whispering in the ear of the dumbest moron on the planet who has control of the nuclear football. And healthcare is already bastardized by the incentives of shareholder profits and the vultures of the for profit insurance industry whos sole purpose is tk deny people adequate health care to boost profits whenever possible so lets not shove religion down the throats of people who are often denied basic dignities.
wtf is a catholic hospital? you get wine and crackers while you wait in purgatory?
Catch some deathbed conversions mostly.
The kind that demon mother teresa ran. Where care is secondary to conversations.
Faith healin’, money stealin’! Git it all in ONE PLACE!!
She who believed that people suffering was a good thing, actually… Seriously, the more someone learns about her, the more vile she is
They add indulgence cost to your hospital bill
Remaining alive: such an indulgence…
I do not currently feel as though I am indulging…
I shall have another beer! Bravo!
Many hospitals are owned by the Catholic Church and are a huge source of income.
Not just the catholics, either. Many flavors of Christianity run hospitals.
It’s a good cover for diabolical greed
That’s all that organized religion has ever been about.
the only 2 hospital networks in my area are literally named Trinity and Genesis, very blatant religious connotations there.
Religious hospitals? What will they think of next!
At least in countries that charge patients money for their healthcare, these religious hospitals are free, right? Given how much money Christianity makes in donations, and given that their whole religion is all about helping others for nothing in return and without judgement, it would make sense they’d run free hospitals providing healthcare for all, no matter their situation ♥️
At least in countries that charge patients money for their healthcare, these religious hospitals are free, right?
A few, but not remotely all. It’s really up to the individual hospital.
Then you’ve got the weird case of St. Jude’s which is somehow not a Catholic hospital despite literally being built as a shrine to St. Jude Thaddeus (patron saint of hopeless causes) by a Catholic man to fulfill a promise he made to build a shrine to St. Jude. St. Jude’s also does not charge patients for treatment, travel, housing, or food though they will bill insurance where possible.
If abortion is an option, it is the only option worth considering.
The only kids who should be carried to term are the ones that have been planned and prepared for.
This is my reason for my answer to the pro-choice question. It is only a baby once you have decided to carry it to term. Before that decision it isn’t.
Dual homicide if you kill a pregnant woman who wanted a child. Not a baby when aborting an unwanted pregnancy.
Deny owner class slave labour.
There is no excuse to have more than one kid unless you are able to properly provide for all of them.
I understand being poor with one child though, I don’t understand the need to spread limited resources over multiple children.
Focus on getting family out of poverty first.
There is no excuse
There’s the problem. Instead of letting other people make their own choices, you’re prescribing what they should and shouldn’t do.
If you told me in my face “there’s no excuse to have more than one child” while i want multiple children, i would see it as an assault and would react accordingly (that might include punching you in the face.)
unless you are able to properly provide for all of them.
That’s what we need UBI (Universal Basic Income)
By the way, what you’re saying feels the same as in the 1960 when women were expected to carry children (without being asked, of course). Just as we condemn that today, we should condemn people pushing other people to have fewer children.
That’s what we need UBI (Universal Basic Income)
Isn’t UBI just a way to accelerate inflation? How will that help anyone?
there’s a certain amount of money in the economy. let’s say $1 million.
of that, $500K belongs to the billionaires and $500K to the average people. Which means the population owns half of all.
Now, you distribute another $1 million among the average people.
Now, the billionaires still have $500K, but the people have $1.5 million, which is 3/4, which is more than 1/2, so it’s an improvement.
Thank you! Reproductive freedom includes not just access to abortion, but also the choice of how many children (if any) to have. Applying arbitrary restrictions to the number of kids other people can have would be the same kind of controlling garbage.
How come 90% of these twitter screenshots I see on lemmy are all just witty comebacks to fake opinions that nobody actually holds? This is like those “feminist gets rekt with facts and logic” compilation videos on youtube, but for liberals. Poking fun at strawmen every once in a while is entertaining, but it gets old really quickly.
Sadly, I have met actual Catholics who believe this.
If they want to have an argument on the Internet they don’t need to make up a bad take; it’s an abundant resource on the web.
This is a 100% real opinion a lot of people hold.
Nevermind, I think you’re right. I was confused by the term “catholic hospital”, but I looked it up and apparently a lot of hospitals around the world really do have a religious affiliations.
a woman i nannied for almost died giving birth to both of her sons. when she had the second one, she asked them to tie her tubes while they were doing the c section and they refused due to their religious policies. she had to fully recover from the birth and then find a doctor who would do the procedure, then had to recover again from that surgery.
Today Lemmy learns that, in fact, the Catholic church has historically provided health care and education, according to their beliefs, over hundred of years
Ok, and?
Reclassify abortion as an exorcism, get a priest chanting some Latin during the procedure and done.
Plus it’s probably way easier for them to fuck kids at a Chuck E. Cheese. Actually it’s probably easier at the hospitals but the supply is larger at the Chuck E. Cheese.
I honestly disagree.
If i’m a programmer working at a company, and that company asks me to write code that would enable autonomous rockets for warfare (like armed drones), i might refuse because i have ethical concerns about it. But i’m still a programmer.
From the view of catholic hospital staff, providing abortions might be murder, and they have ethical concerns about it. They are still a hospital.
Ok but your thing is an actual problem and their thing is a made up non-problem which it is their job and (ironically) sacred hippocratic duty to perform.
The real irony is that, while Hippocrates was not a Christian, the hippocratic oath forbids doctors to perform abortion.
Today, doctors take an amended oath in most countries with a few changes but the original Hippocratic oath tries to instill a reverence for life in the practitioners of medicine.
Does refusing to program a drone prevent a cancer patient from receiving treatment? Do these drones prevent organ rupture in ectopic pregnancies? When asked to program armed drones, are you also sitting face-to-face with a person who is suffering or dying because you aren’t actively programming them?
The denial of healthcare involves victims. Nobody’s hurt when you refuse to do a drone-programming job, but witholding a medically-necessary abortion directly results in avoidable human suffering. That’s the key difference that makes these situations incomparable.
Nah, for the catholic hospital staff they probably shouldn’t have a job if it goes against their personal ethics.
But organizations do not have religion.
Then don’t get a job at a defense company. If you don’t want to provide abortions, don’t get a job at a hospital.
In both your programmer case and the case of the catholic hospital staff member you have a very clear option, you can not work at that facility. Don’t want to write code for military weapons, cool then work somewhere that doesn’t do that. Don’t want to provide abortions at your work, cool then work in a medical facility that doesn’t provide them. Many facilities don’t perform abortions just because they aren’t intended to, such as clinics etc so you should work there.
Your programmer case also doesn’t make sense because extending the metophor you want companies to be allowed to not develop software that is used by the military…they can already do that.
I think we should also force chuck e cheese to perform abortions.
fun for the whole family!
Instead of doctors we’d have AI controlled animatronics doing the deed.
