I have to admit that I have not read the Illias or the Odyssey in school, either. We were made read books in school intendet to make children shy away from books, so they won’t touch any of them after school ever again.
Luckily I had read loads of good books by that time, so I knew that only a few are as horrible as the ones they made us read in school.
the illias and the odyssey are ancient greek literature, I don’t think they’re that fun to read.
But, you still should be taught about their existence in history.
There are basic versions of these stories with big drawings, mostly made for kids. Basically manga. When i was a kid(in Greece), 35 years ago, i had this
https://www.stratikis.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iliada-nea.jpg
This is Iliad and it was cooler than Odyssey. Badass dudes with almost divine powers fighting other dudes and entire armies on their own, while Gods are taking sides and fucking things up. Isnt that shonen.
Odyssey’s ending was cool though, even if it was a bit sad.
It does feel a lot like that, doesn’t it? Why else would the Bronte sisters be on the curriculum if not to snuff out any interest in literature?
It could be worse. We read Brecht and Kafka. Several works of them. I’ve never encountered worse waste of paper and ink than those idiots. And the rest was not much better.
Just because it was wasted on you doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea, Kafka’s short stories especially (Die Verwandlung, Ein Landarzt etc) are accessible for teenagers and a good gateway drug to get interested in other things. Which is really important for kids that don’t have natural access to literature at home.
Sorry, but I experienced “Die Verwandlung” as written diarrhea of a person with severe mental problems. “Der Prozess” didn’t improve my opition of him, either.
Well, lead a horse to water etc, doesn’t mean we should stop making teens read books in school they wouldn’t be exposed to otherwise. At least now you have both read and formed an opinion on two of the most influential and well regarded works of world literature. (And hopefully they also made you read a lot of other literature in diverse styles and genres.)
The problem is not about “reading books they would not read otherwise”. Sadly, many, if not most, kids don’t get exposed to books anymore except in school. And then they are confronted with unlikable stuff that makes them shy away from ever touching a book again.
I still hope that one day the people who decide what children and teens should read in school get their elitist heads out of their asses and actually try to get kids to read because they enjoy reading a book. Problem is that most people in that area seem to hate books that actually sell in the shops because people like to read them. Like I said about Reich-Ranizky once: he would not notice a good book if it bit him.
So the obvious solution is they should read more books, more varied stuff, not less. Popular, niche, basic, normative, weird, etc.
Of course, your assumption that all teens hate Kafka just because you do is demonstrably false. The assumption that books sell simply because they are actually better and more enjoyable to read is also false, there are a lot of other factors at play.
The kids that enjoy reading will find what is pushed in the book shops anyway, but kids from working class homes will never be exposed to anything else - and therefore have no chance to decide if they like it or not.
Only boring kids would find Wuthering Heights & Jane Eyre boring. Both books would be excellent choices in any curriculum. If you wanna talk boring early 19th century authors, Jane Austen is the name you’re looking for.
I found Wuthering Heights more miserable than boring.
Did “history of the world” not mention Homer?
I am tired of western Cinema jerking off to same old stories, which tbh aren’t the pinnacle of literature or storytelling. There are so many cultural epics which are deserving of the big screen, but unfortunately this western culture bias keeps the general audience from being exposed to any of it.
It wouldn’t matter, but the issue is then you have utter fucking illiterates and philistines who believe that only western writers, thinkers or philosophers came up with anything good. New flash, many, many of the western writers took their influence from non-western sources.
How many movies are there about the Odyssey?
Western media trends towards the myths and legends from western culture? No shit
I mean, what else would you expect? That’s human nature. Kinda a wild thing to be complaining about
I get what you’re saying, but I guess I am just idealistic and expect more from people, like being honest about the sources and influences of their works
Edit here’s one of the inspirations for Homers odyssey, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh
Look, I am not saying both of these aren’t great works with their own merits, I am just saying that people aren’t exposed to different things and then live with cultural and racial biases.
But imagine if African or pre-Columbine American mythologies were used to film movies and series.
I mean
Every culture does that, though? If anything, Americans appreciating the works of the Greeks is as widespread and diverse as a culture can possibly get.
Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame. Tibetan Monks and the Dali Lama are a huge cultural phenomenon all over the world. Wuxia/Xianxia based on old Taoism writings and diagrams are popular in all forms of media. Period Dramas about the old aristocracy in Asia are a huge genre.
Koreans shove Korean dragons and Dokaebi into every medium they can. Japanese love them some Shinto priestess main characters and Yokai stories.
Arabia’s got thieves guilds, Solomon, and genies and other creatures of fire and wind.
Russia has Baba Yaga and Rasputin depictions.
Germany and western Europe have Fairy Tales.
India has a strong and proud history of racism, classism, Hinduism, nepotism, sexism, I don’t really remember where I was going with this point, tbh.
Africa… Honestly, Africa might need more time to recover, idk what their cultural epics entail…
That’s how culture works. The differences and uniqueness make them worth experiencing, and why people work so hard to preserve them in perpetuity across many generations. Except India. Idk y tf they’re doing that shit.
They could all appreciate some other shit, yeah, but that’s not how culture works.
That wasn’t exactly my point. There are examples of Epic tales from other cultures which people often get exposure to by default because the main focus of western cinema or storytelling is Greek or English.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_folk-epics
Note that epic tales are a distinct type of genre
Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame.
Let’s not forget that in the same way you can trace a huge amount of things you see in Western stories to the Greek epics and Gilgamesh you can trace a huge amount of things you see in anime/manga to the Journey to the West.
fucking crazy to denigrate South Asia like that when you made the effort to respect culture for all the other regions you mentioned. I guess all the other countries you mentioned don’t have a history of racism, classism, nepotism, sexism or religion?
No they do but for most of them it’s sort of died off a little bit in the last 200 years.
In India, it doesn’t seem to be declining much…
Looks like it’s being lifted up.
I would actually argue that in many ways it’s increasing, at least in Pakistan where I have family, although these aren’t the only countries with growing fascism and regressive social politics (see lots of Europe and of course the US).
But your comment was about stories of cultural importance, not race or gender or class; I can’t help but feel offended that you would choose to shit on my culture for some reason instead of identifying relevant stories like you did for the other cultures you mentioned in your comment. I agree that those -isms should be criticized, but India definitely caught a stray from your comment.
Yeah, and I did very poorly represent my case. I really didn’t give it much effort or thought, and I apologize for that. It just appears from an outsiders perspective that the Caste System, while not officially in effect, is an integral part of India’s society and it shows in their films and TV. This is also true for the USA whose poor record of Civil Rights is also a continued focus for films and TV.
This comment serves as a reminder that the normalized hatred directed at India/South Asia on Reddit is alive and well on Lemmy too
A wise man once said “There are two things in the world I can’t stand: people who are intolerant of other people’s cultures… and the Dutch.”
In both his case and mine, the cultural insensitivity was part of the joke.
…may we see the tweets?
Rude tweets? At this time of year?
thankies 💚
Most cultured Brit
Reminds me of this: https://www.tiktok.com/@emanrtm/video/7348507560032439585?lang=en
The Illiad and the Odyssey are classics and hardly American culture. They are western culture as a whole. No idea what the drama is about but some dude not knowing what the Odyssey is, is the same as not knowing any other classic. (There are too many to count, but not knowing the most popular ones are is like not knowing the titanic sank.) (Spoilers)
That’s the joke.
$10 says the dipshit in question did a frantic google, saw ‘ulysses’ and went james joyce.
Still not American though
Getting closer at least
…the US is not closer to the UK than Ireland though…
What! He never saw Wishbone’s the Odyssey?
I was way to old for Wishbone but damn did I stop and watch when that cute fucking dog was on the tv. Anyone who didn’t is a heartless bastard.
I prefer to watch it in its original Japanese.
I’m partial to the one set in rural Mississippi during the Great Depression.
Damn, we’re in a tight spot.
When the only Homer they know is Homer Simpson.
Fun fact: the voice actor for Homer Simpson also voiced Homer (the Greek one) in the Disney Hercules animated series.
Even The Simpsons covered the Odyssey at some point though.
Fox should sue those lazy Greeks for stealing the name.
How are you supposed to enjoy the music of Civilisation 7 without knowing The Odyssey?
On a similar note, you’d think the guy on the right would counter with Beowulf
I learned what it is when I played oddworld: abe’s oddysey (and as a bonus I appreciated the deliberate misspelling to insert the word “odd” into the title, which they did again in the sequel, abe’s exodus)
You haven’t experienced The Odyssey until you’ve read it in it’s original Klingon.
EDIT: I HATE
TAYLOR SWIFTGIFS!!! https://tenor.com/nB52SeZoYP1.gifMeanwhile on tiktok British people are apparently mad at Americans for not knowing or caring about Robbie Williams
Robbie Williams designed his career around not being famous in the US so he could live there without being recognized.
What insane revisionist history cope. Robbie tried multiple times to crack the US but was soundly rejected by American audiences every time.
The problem is, I have this big bag of stones in my glass house, and I want to throw them at the UK for being dumb, but if I do, I also have to admit the US education system is trash.
Both can be true. We can be trash in different ways!
I’ll throw that stone for you
The British education system is almost as bad as the American education system. The biggest difference between our cultures is that a lot of Americans are willing to point out how incredibly racist our country is
So much broken glass, was it worth it? Now I have to go get the broom.
The amazing part is you somehow broke France and the Netherland’s glass too? Just so much to clean up.
It’s not just slavery minimization. A lot of far right Americans have taken over local school boards to ban books that talk about gay people existing or the fact that sex is something that happens, among other nefarious purposes. And a religious organization in Texas writes pretty much all the textbooks used across the country. It can’t be this bad in the UK can it?
I mean, I have no qualms with recognizing the US education system is garbage… It gives me more fire to try to improve it.
I can do both. I’m ot gonna let some backwater pit like the UK insult my home, especially since the UK is essentially completely dependent on the US at this point.
