It’s different outlets as well, you see. PBS doesn’t have a material about the most recent attack, but pretty much every recent material they have is negative for Israel, two straight out discussing genocide. Which the Russians also attempt to commit against Ukrainians denying them their right for self–determination, my dear Russian friend.
war is not the same as genocide, Russia has deliberately avoided hitting civilian targets and allowed evacuations. More civilians killed by Israel in a month than by Russia in a much broader war over 3 years. Israel are purposeful genocidal child killers. Russians are professionally prosecuting a conventional war.
war is not the same as genocide, Russia has deliberately avoided hitting civilian targets and allowed evacuations.
According to whom, Russia Today?
More civilians killed by Israel in a month than by Russia in a much broader war over 3 years
Source for this stat please, cuz just from what I’m seeing that’s such an absurd lie I’m amazed you actually try to push it.
Israel are purposeful genocidal child killers
True.
Russians are professionally prosecuting a conventional war.
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42094 - using open channel cheap radios and getting slaughtered or https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42053 using taxis to evacuate the wounded? That’s a Russian mil blogger in a span of few days. There’s thousands of examples like that if you just pull your head out of your ass and actually read anything else than propaganda. Seriously, even just read the Russian millblogers directly. Russian soldiers are mistreated to such a degree that it is genuinely sad to hear it. They are as much hated for their crimes as they are despised for their competency with their utterly criminal leadership.
Browse though some of this; https://mastodon.social/@ChrisO_wiki - some sources I can easily accept as likely western propaganda, but most is sourced from Russian channels directly. Have fun reading about the professionalism of Russian army.
Yeah, the next was was air dropped, and so the next one. And neither caused anywhere near the same outrage as the russian puppet with his golden shitter and a party train. Wonder how could that be explained.
Our conservative right wing media was mostly funded by our Kremlin-aligned government for most of the last decade, and of course they did. A Russian influence agent is running a Rwanda style hate radio/tv fundamentalist catholic empire here as well for that very reason. The neo-con/“liberal” media are western funded and mostly busy with trying to get their guys into power in a classic bi-partisan manner. But what does that change for Ukrainian politics? Ukrainians are supported by most of the nation in spite of political divides, even the fascist nationalists had to claim they are supporting refugees not to fall out of favor.
Me when I want to make having completely normal relations with a directly neighboring country sound sinister, when everyone knows that a Ukraine with true self determination obviously welcomes an administration installed by a US backed coup in order to use the country as a forward outpost/cannon fodder in their ceaseless aggression and military encirclement of their geopolitical targets.
The only part of Russia Poland neighbors is a military base enclave. And your “everyone” is your sect that will attack any division from your firmly held beliefs particularly one asking for evidence as showcased here over and over.
Oh and the alignment meant was mostly in authoritarian control over media, judiciary, level of corruption, blocking any public hearings of new laws, supercharging the parliamentary process to stifle opposition or any discussion of new law, unprecedented (since the old regime collapse) usage of surveillance against opposition, usage of far right paramilitary groups against mass feminist protests and so on. You know policies more popular in Moscow than anywhere else.
Might be the reason why Kremlin supports far-right parties all over Europe and in US, and you people are willful enablers of that.
Cheers, learned a new word. Love the western well educated leftists come to explain the world to us stupid Slavs. Thanks!
Or you missed clear evidence, admissions and so on of Russia sponsoring Le Pen, AFD, Austrian or US fascists? Like, this stuff is public, there’s a ton of sources. Proving the case for their infiltration of the PiS party would be harder, since it’s investigative jurno books in Polish mostly.
Double standards, white supremacy, western chauvinism, the
The people who were fanatically chanting “Slava Ukraini” are the exact same people recording themselves blowing up children and apartment towers in Gaza with their iPhone 15 Pro Max, while also making thinly-veiled (or even open) bomb threats over “the hostages”.
Oh and “Slava Ukraini” is in a semi-literal way written in the blood of Palestinian children.
Once it was figured out that AmeriKKKans blew up the pipelines, it was swept under the rug.
Last ive seen most likely Ukrainians operating out of Poland unbotherd by Polish services, as its a shared strategic objective for both countries. BTW you do know that Nordstream2 was turned off months earlier by Russia to blackmail Germany?
The people who were fanatically chanting
The what? Its start overstreached but finishes so absurd I wont even attempt any logic.
Death to AmeriKKKa
This I could support. Also death to Russia and every other imperialism (incl European and Chinese).
There’s litterally nothing you could do to lower my opinion of western leftiests anymore, I come into these discussions knowing this is the top level of an argument you could master. Fucking imperialist scum.
And yet the best the crowd of you could master is replaying cheap propaganda straight of RT and freaking out when its questioned or any scrutiny is applied.
I remember how everyone in my country who have opinions for a living were clutching their pearls saying “war in Europe” as if it was orders of magnitude worse than war everywhere else.
Oh really? I can’t imagine Ukraine having the means to sabotage it, given the location being near Poland. Meanwhile Bellend (and the US in general) had very clear motives and the means to sabotage it so the EU would be forced to buy much more expensive LNG from AmeriKKKans.
Either way, it’s not hard to see why there’s no outrage over the fact.
US had the clearest motive of all since destroying the pipelines meant not only that they could increase their control of the gas market and as you said, secure transshipment through Ukraine and Poland, but by doing so they also eliminated any possibility or pretense of Germany and Russia resuming their economic collaboration. The US had motives and plans to blow up Nordstream well before it happened. Biden said as such in Feb 2022 before Russia’s SMO/invasion even began.
The bombing also forced Germany and the EU to deepen their dependency on the US and severely damaged German industry. Any benefits that accrued to Poland and Ukraine also accrued to the US. Also, US naval vessels were operating in the immediate area of the bombing, and were conducting underwater “training” exercises in the week leading up to the bombing. The US had the motive, means, and expertise to pull off the bombing. It should be obvious the USA did it.
how does that compare to daily russian bombardment of civi targets?
How does that compare to Ukraine constantly shelling the donbas for the last 10 years? Denying Russian Ukrainians their pensions? Literally engaging in genocide by making use of Russian illegal and shit like that?
Have you seen pictures of Bakhmut after half a year of battle? How was anything still standing in Donbas after supposably 10 years of bombardment? This is such a deeply absurd propaganda point, how could anyone fall for that?
Why? Your point is a red herring either way. The scale of destruction when two nation states fight a dug in war is different from a nation state suppressing a regional separatist movement? Premise granted. So?
Just let me know when we can go back to the original argument
You’re claiming 10 years of bombardment. That should somehow show, no?
What was your original point again? Ukr massive brutal arty fires that leave no trace, they fact that… they did not pay pensions to people in territories occupied by Russia? Or the bullshit about Russian being illegal, which it is not?
Oh no, I think it was your argument that the death of two shitheads at the hands of other nationalist shitheads justifies this war, and daily civilian death from Rus arty. Sure, sounds like any reasonable argument from me could help here…
Notice how you say “civic targets” to imply bombing civillians like we and our allies do, when what you’re actually talking about is striking power stations? I know that’s what you actually mean, because if you or anyone in the capitalist propaganda sphere had evidence of “daily russian bombardment” of civillians, we would never hear the end of it. This is a weak deflection with no weight behind it.
Since you definitely truly care about human life, what do you think about the US-backed nazi junta’s 8 years of bombings and terror raids targeted specifically at civillians? Their own people too, which I hear is apparently extra evil in the eyes of liberals who weigh morality by the fiction of statehood. Seems like the kind of thing that should have a more self-aware person clamoring for regime change there, too. But then, you’re literally lying for nazis right now. There’s no bar too low for you to ooze under.
Mate there’s a daily stream of bombed out housing blocks, supermarkets, hospitals and markets. Just do a fast search, or check r/Ukraine if you need to.
Tell me, why would >>Russian citizens<< stay in Donbas under this constant bombardment if they could anytime move say 50km and be out of range of anything Ukraine had untill 2-3 years ago? They heroically die for motherlands propaganda machine or their country not only wouldent protect nor would allow them to move?
People in Gaza figured out if the Israeli genocidal state is bombing them it makes sense to run. But there’s not much territory there to hide. Russia on the other hand does seem to have… a bit more to get out of range why not offer it at least to the willing? Why no satellite evidence, especially compared to how Bakhmut or Mauriopol looked after a few months of Russian operations? You ever attempt to reality check what you believe, even if its with the best intentions?
These were Ukrainian citizens who spoke Russian and lived in Ukraine all their lives, and before that the USSR. Why wouldn’t they move? Because their grandparents fought the demons from the west and so will they, because they are brave and don’t just accept ethnic cleansing but fight back.
Every generation a new batch of swastika wearing fascist westerners invade Russia, you don’t think they are ready for your shit?
All I’m saying is if they were bombed, they could easily escape it, or Russia could easily destroy to guns used, since Ukr didn’t have any serious long range artillery until recently. So either Russia was unwilling, or the people did not feel threatened or something is off here.
To a certain degree. Did Ukr fire shots into Donbas? I’d be surprised if it didn’t. Was it a genocidal constant barrage that Rus propaganda made you believe it was? There would be clear evidence of that, and you people have none and go into vatnik screeching anyone asks for it. And if it was… again why wouldn’t the Russian state just relocate these people?
I don’t know if you get it but the brain-dead mantra about supposed shelling sounds like a joke to everyone outside you bubble, so much it doesn’t make sense.
BTW please refrain from attempting to insult me. For one - it only makes you look like you can’t hold an argument, and two I’ve no respect for you as a person at the moment anyway, so it’s as touching as a drunk hobos mumblings and a waste of everyone’s time.
genocide. Which the Russians also attempt to commit against Ukrainians denying them their right for self–determination, my dear Russian friend.
Thank god Zelensky is not trying to commit genocide on Ukrainians denying them their right for self-determination by forbidding people to leave the country and kidnapping them off the streets 1 by 1 in front of their mothers/wives and sending them to the meatgrinder, am I right, my dear Western friend holding the moral high ground?
It’s different outlets as well, you see. PBS doesn’t have a material about the most recent attack, but pretty much every recent material they have is negative for Israel, two straight out discussing genocide. Which the Russians also attempt to commit against Ukrainians denying them their right for self–determination, my dear Russian friend.
war is not the same as genocide, Russia has deliberately avoided hitting civilian targets and allowed evacuations. More civilians killed by Israel in a month than by Russia in a much broader war over 3 years. Israel are purposeful genocidal child killers. Russians are professionally prosecuting a conventional war.
According to whom, Russia Today?
Source for this stat please, cuz just from what I’m seeing that’s such an absurd lie I’m amazed you actually try to push it.
True.
https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42094 - using open channel cheap radios and getting slaughtered or https://t.me/NeoficialniyBeZsonoV/42053 using taxis to evacuate the wounded? That’s a Russian mil blogger in a span of few days. There’s thousands of examples like that if you just pull your head out of your ass and actually read anything else than propaganda. Seriously, even just read the Russian millblogers directly. Russian soldiers are mistreated to such a degree that it is genuinely sad to hear it. They are as much hated for their crimes as they are despised for their competency with their utterly criminal leadership.
Browse though some of this; https://mastodon.social/@ChrisO_wiki - some sources I can easily accept as likely western propaganda, but most is sourced from Russian channels directly. Have fun reading about the professionalism of Russian army.
Oh, you’ve seen a Russian generals take on the whole Syrian affair? https://video.echelon.pl/w/mmbpbaAADwnu7K1tA7iGnv
You mean Obomba and then-VP Joe Bellend at the end of 2013 denied Ukraine the right to elect their own president
Yeah, the next was was air dropped, and so the next one. And neither caused anywhere near the same outrage as the russian puppet with his golden shitter and a party train. Wonder how could that be explained.
You don’t have right wing media funded by western billionaires driving the temperature constantly upwards in your country?
Our conservative right wing media was mostly funded by our Kremlin-aligned government for most of the last decade, and of course they did. A Russian influence agent is running a Rwanda style hate radio/tv fundamentalist catholic empire here as well for that very reason. The neo-con/“liberal” media are western funded and mostly busy with trying to get their guys into power in a classic bi-partisan manner. But what does that change for Ukrainian politics? Ukrainians are supported by most of the nation in spite of political divides, even the fascist nationalists had to claim they are supporting refugees not to fall out of favor.
Me when I want to make having completely normal relations with a directly neighboring country sound sinister, when everyone knows that a Ukraine with true self determination obviously welcomes an administration installed by a US backed coup in order to use the country as a forward outpost/cannon fodder in their ceaseless aggression and military encirclement of their geopolitical targets.
The only part of Russia Poland neighbors is a military base enclave. And your “everyone” is your sect that will attack any division from your firmly held beliefs particularly one asking for evidence as showcased here over and over.
Oh and the alignment meant was mostly in authoritarian control over media, judiciary, level of corruption, blocking any public hearings of new laws, supercharging the parliamentary process to stifle opposition or any discussion of new law, unprecedented (since the old regime collapse) usage of surveillance against opposition, usage of far right paramilitary groups against mass feminist protests and so on. You know policies more popular in Moscow than anywhere else.
Might be the reason why Kremlin supports far-right parties all over Europe and in US, and you people are willful enablers of that.
You are either very credulous or intentionally engaging in bad faith, and I don’t much care to figure out which
Cheers, learned a new word. Love the western well educated leftists come to explain the world to us stupid Slavs. Thanks!
Or you missed clear evidence, admissions and so on of Russia sponsoring Le Pen, AFD, Austrian or US fascists? Like, this stuff is public, there’s a ton of sources. Proving the case for their infiltration of the PiS party would be harder, since it’s investigative jurno books in Polish mostly.
Well it’s explained very easily.
Double standards, white supremacy, western chauvinism, the
The people who were fanatically chanting “Slava Ukraini” are the exact same people recording themselves blowing up children and apartment towers in Gaza with their iPhone 15 Pro Max, while also making thinly-veiled (or even open) bomb threats over “the hostages”.
Oh and “Slava Ukraini” is in a semi-literal way written in the blood of Palestinian children.
Death to AmeriKKKa
Dont care
Last ive seen most likely Ukrainians operating out of Poland unbotherd by Polish services, as its a shared strategic objective for both countries. BTW you do know that Nordstream2 was turned off months earlier by Russia to blackmail Germany?
The what? Its start overstreached but finishes so absurd I wont even attempt any logic.
This I could support. Also death to Russia and every other imperialism (incl European and Chinese).
There’s litterally nothing you could do to lower my opinion of western leftiests anymore, I come into these discussions knowing this is the top level of an argument you could master. Fucking imperialist scum.
Why the fuck would anyone care what your opinion is? “Don’t care”
Why do these pigeon playing chess assholes always think their opinion is so important that everyone has to fucking tap dance for them?
And yet the best the crowd of you could master is replaying cheap propaganda straight of RT and freaking out when its questioned or any scrutiny is applied.
Have one more for the road, lmao
Oh yeah, give me a few more of this comrade, your praxis is so in line with the party.
Fucking western leftists. Single guy with a gun achived more for class war in few days then you shits over last 50 years. How does that feel?
I remember how everyone in my country who have opinions for a living were clutching their pearls saying “war in Europe” as if it was orders of magnitude worse than war everywhere else.
It’s a Ukrainian who is suspected of sabotaging the pipeline.
it was Americans and if you believe otherwise you are literally braindead
Oh really? I can’t imagine Ukraine having the means to sabotage it, given the location being near Poland. Meanwhile Bellend (and the US in general) had very clear motives and the means to sabotage it so the EU would be forced to buy much more expensive LNG from AmeriKKKans.
Either way, it’s not hard to see why there’s no outrage over the fact.
Actually Poland and Ukraine had a much clearer motive, the only other piplines cross there. Also here you have Russian generals take on the issue: https://video.echelon.pl/videos/watch/a4c80ebc-8f70-40c8-85a4-51bc794a8487
US had the clearest motive of all since destroying the pipelines meant not only that they could increase their control of the gas market and as you said, secure transshipment through Ukraine and Poland, but by doing so they also eliminated any possibility or pretense of Germany and Russia resuming their economic collaboration. The US had motives and plans to blow up Nordstream well before it happened. Biden said as such in Feb 2022 before Russia’s SMO/invasion even began.
The bombing also forced Germany and the EU to deepen their dependency on the US and severely damaged German industry. Any benefits that accrued to Poland and Ukraine also accrued to the US. Also, US naval vessels were operating in the immediate area of the bombing, and were conducting underwater “training” exercises in the week leading up to the bombing. The US had the motive, means, and expertise to pull off the bombing. It should be obvious the USA did it.
Wow it only took them two years to admit it, huh, wonder what changed
PBS? Ive no idea of their reporting over last two years and honestly neither care nor believe you do.
shut up liberal
Or what you gonna cry?
If that’s what genocide is, then it’s good to know you support Ukraine’s genocide in the Donbas Republics.
Your brain is fully cooked by the desire to live in a conspiracy thriller movie
Yeah now honestly the union house masacre of two thing, how does that compare to daily russian bombardment of civi targets?
How does that compare to Ukraine constantly shelling the donbas for the last 10 years? Denying Russian Ukrainians their pensions? Literally engaging in genocide by making use of Russian illegal and shit like that?
Have you seen pictures of Bakhmut after half a year of battle? How was anything still standing in Donbas after supposably 10 years of bombardment? This is such a deeply absurd propaganda point, how could anyone fall for that?
You’re arguing a thing in the past didn’t happen because of ‘common sense’ bullshit
Why not just look it up
OK, fast search; US propaganda site with a good selection of satellite photos. Show me something remotly of this scale from any Kremlin or whichever you want sources for Donbas city.
Why? Your point is a red herring either way. The scale of destruction when two nation states fight a dug in war is different from a nation state suppressing a regional separatist movement? Premise granted. So?
Just let me know when we can go back to the original argument
You’re claiming 10 years of bombardment. That should somehow show, no?
What was your original point again? Ukr massive brutal arty fires that leave no trace, they fact that… they did not pay pensions to people in territories occupied by Russia? Or the bullshit about Russian being illegal, which it is not?
Oh no, I think it was your argument that the death of two shitheads at the hands of other nationalist shitheads justifies this war, and daily civilian death from Rus arty. Sure, sounds like any reasonable argument from me could help here…
god you’re a fucking moron
Pull up any random picture of Donbas and Bakhmut right now and tell me if you spot a difference.
You are just now discovering the concept of linear time and causality
How does that explain your lack of visual evidence?
Notice how you say “civic targets” to imply bombing civillians like we and our allies do, when what you’re actually talking about is striking power stations? I know that’s what you actually mean, because if you or anyone in the capitalist propaganda sphere had evidence of “daily russian bombardment” of civillians, we would never hear the end of it. This is a weak deflection with no weight behind it.
Since you definitely truly care about human life, what do you think about the US-backed nazi junta’s 8 years of bombings and terror raids targeted specifically at civillians? Their own people too, which I hear is apparently extra evil in the eyes of liberals who weigh morality by the fiction of statehood. Seems like the kind of thing that should have a more self-aware person clamoring for regime change there, too. But then, you’re literally lying for nazis right now. There’s no bar too low for you to ooze under.
Mate there’s a daily stream of bombed out housing blocks, supermarkets, hospitals and markets. Just do a fast search, or check r/Ukraine if you need to.
You’re saying things a decade ago didn’t happen because there’s damage from things happening now
That’s very stupid
Tell me, why would >>Russian citizens<< stay in Donbas under this constant bombardment if they could anytime move say 50km and be out of range of anything Ukraine had untill 2-3 years ago? They heroically die for motherlands propaganda machine or their country not only wouldent protect nor would allow them to move?
People in Gaza figured out if the Israeli genocidal state is bombing them it makes sense to run. But there’s not much territory there to hide. Russia on the other hand does seem to have… a bit more to get out of range why not offer it at least to the willing? Why no satellite evidence, especially compared to how Bakhmut or Mauriopol looked after a few months of Russian operations? You ever attempt to reality check what you believe, even if its with the best intentions?
These were Ukrainian citizens who spoke Russian and lived in Ukraine all their lives, and before that the USSR. Why wouldn’t they move? Because their grandparents fought the demons from the west and so will they, because they are brave and don’t just accept ethnic cleansing but fight back.
Every generation a new batch of swastika wearing fascist westerners invade Russia, you don’t think they are ready for your shit?
Threatening people to move prior to terror-bombing is some next-level
right here.
All I’m saying is if they were bombed, they could easily escape it, or Russia could easily destroy to guns used, since Ukr didn’t have any serious long range artillery until recently. So either Russia was unwilling, or the people did not feel threatened or something is off here.
What I’m getting from your disjointed screed is that you’re implying that the Donbas shelling is a hoax. You nazi pieces of shit will say anything
To a certain degree. Did Ukr fire shots into Donbas? I’d be surprised if it didn’t. Was it a genocidal constant barrage that Rus propaganda made you believe it was? There would be clear evidence of that, and you people have none and go into vatnik screeching anyone asks for it. And if it was… again why wouldn’t the Russian state just relocate these people?
I don’t know if you get it but the brain-dead mantra about supposed shelling sounds like a joke to everyone outside you bubble, so much it doesn’t make sense.
BTW please refrain from attempting to insult me. For one - it only makes you look like you can’t hold an argument, and two I’ve no respect for you as a person at the moment anyway, so it’s as touching as a drunk hobos mumblings and a waste of everyone’s time.
Posters IRL name is Dimitry, doesn’t sound like your typical native KKKanadian.
Thank god Zelensky is not trying to commit genocide on Ukrainians denying them their right for self-determination by forbidding people to leave the country and kidnapping them off the streets 1 by 1 in front of their mothers/wives and sending them to the meatgrinder, am I right, my dear Western friend holding the moral high ground?
Im not western, and live with a place with over a million Ukrainian refugees, with whom I work. The fuck you talking about?