Yes, it’s a PCM meme, but still accurate as fuck.
I’ve always wondered why conservatives harbor so much hate for immigrants and not the business owners taking advantage of vulnerable populations
That second part won’t go away, they’ll just make a different vulnerable group
Because in a free market, “taking advantage of” someone else always involves them taking advantage of you too. It’s an exchange economy.
In a free market, being used means being paid.
If you really want to understand how conservatives think, you need to remember that we see our economy as a system of consensual trades between adults.
Being exploited is always paired with exploiting the one exploiting you. That’s why we talk in terms of “jobs”. Trade: a two-way thing.
That’s some pretty serious mental gymnastics that completely disregards how employee/employer relationships work in the real world.
If you really want to understand how conservatives think, you need to remember that we see our economy as a system of consensual trades between adults.
It’s not really “consensual” if the alternative is homelessness, starvation, and criminalization is it?
We want them gone too, it’s just harder to go after companies.
So going after the people being exploiters instead is constructive?
You can do both. But as I said, it’s harder to go after them.
Look what happened to the agricultural situation in the UK after brexit: a large portion of the east EU citizens left and there was no one who wanted to pick crops.
Now they can’t get seasonal workers because of visa issues.
Well they could simply raise wages
Then the farmers go broke. Or prices could rise allowing the farmers to be paid better, and in turn pay better wages.
y’know i’m honestly a little relieved that other conservatives are just as willfully ignorant as the ones i have to interact with in person.
I don’t understand. Is the statement incorrect? Or are you hoping that the wages for pickers will go up enough for “real Americans” to take the jobs?
I’m hoping the wages will go up, yes.
why hope when you can vote for people who will pass laws to make the wages go up?
Most people did.
most people didn’t vote.
True, I should correct my statement: more people who voted did than didn’t.
Did they though? Will we get laws to raise wages?
Yeah.
Notably there’s these promises from Trump:
- mass deportations of illegal immigrants
- tariffs
Yeah probably
Is it a likely progression? And how long do you believe it will take? Also, I’m curious what you are basing your hope on and what the you believe the knock-on effects will be. It would be good to know if something similar happened in the US or another country in order to compare.
I’m not an psychic, but I’d imagine the more we deport, the more wages will go up. Hopefully in 4 years, we’ll be in a much better place.
The biggest side effect would be higher rates for fruit/veggies and for landscaping. But I’d pay extra for fruit I know is grown ethically. I already do, as much as I try.
Setting aside all the other issues, if you think creating a worker shortage (which might increase wages short term) will do anything good for your economy: it won’t.
Historically economic growth is pretty closely tied to population growth. More hands create more value. Removing hands will make the remaining hands more valuable but there is still less value created. And the people that hold economic power aren’t going to give up their share easily, so one way or another it will eventually mean even less for the workers.
There was population growth in the late 1800s, it wasn’t until the population got paid more that the economy took off.
While that’s true, the capitalists where getting richer and richer even before the big economic growth. They don’t really care. Also, the wage increases had to be hard fought for by a united working class. I don’t see american workers unite right now to fight the rich.
Without exploitable labor employers will have to pay employees more. Workers won’t have to fight, they can do nothing and wages will still increase.
Creating an under class of people doesn’t help. Look at the South vs the North. The south had slaves, the north largely did not. The north has much more industry.
I’m not an psychic, but I’d imagine the more we deport, the more wages will go up
I think it’s a reasonable assumption, but the reason I was asking for the basis for that hope is because I was hoping you had done some research and found some data to base that assumption on. It could have been a solid basis for it. In the UK, where Brexit was touted to achieve the same goal, the wages did go up (not a very good source, but well) however they ended up asking for the pickers, truck drivers, and handiworkers to return (EuroNews 2021, BBC 2023, Le Monde).
If you were to take a look at Germany (3rd biggest economy in the world), it struggles to get workers for elderly care and instead of increasing wages to attract more people, they are instead making easier to hire abroad e.g India.
The biggest side effect would be higher rates for fruit/veggies and for landscaping. But I’d pay extra for fruit I know is grown ethically. I already do, as much as I try.
I agree that the cost of food and landscaping will go up, which could be troubling for some who hoped for the opposite. Given how wages have not risen at the same rate as inflation, it is difficult to share your hope for increased wages - be it for the pickers and landscapers or the people paying for the produce and services. But, I may be wrong, I’m not a psychic either.
I do commend you for willing to pay more for ethically grown (and harvested) fruit. Whether your fellow countrymen and women are is yet to be seen.
In conclusion, my fear is that while there might be mass deportations and a real chance of wages going up, IMO the most likely outcomes are
- a drastic labour shortage in under-regulated and low-wage jobs previously held by the deported
- a quick increase in products and services of said jobs
- following options:
- lobbying to simplify and speed up the return of said workers to keep wages / costs down
- prison workers being forced to do the jobs (some places already do that) --> prison industrial complex growth
- wage increases starting from minimum wage to attract US citizens to do the jobs
- lots of businesses going bankrupt followed by consolidation by larger businesses and acute risk or establishment of monopolies
Whether those are all good, whether they happen together or separately, I don’t know, but my hopes aren’t very high that the total outcome will be positive.
Good luck though.
I don’t want any damn Mexicans working low paid agriculture jobs and paying taxes! I want MY taxes to go toward the private prisons that will house them before more of my taxes go toward deporting them! I’m prepared to pay even more for groceries so get ICE rolling.
All you’ve done is replace black people with Mexicans. Are you happy with yourself?
Don’t worry, there’s plenty of room in these for-profit prisons for other minorities.
are you equating slavery and immigration?
fuckin dumbos
That is why you guys are importing cheap labor, is it not?
Nobody is importing cheap labor. Are you a moron lmfaooo
What a way to tell me you know nothing of the migration crisis. The answer is right there and instead you take the moronic scenic route.
Such a more obvious way to criticize the west and you choose to be dumb and ineffective lol
Literally H1B
Work visa is literally slavery!
- you, a moron
When it’s abused, yes.
no. absolutely dumb dumb dumb
No u
The US is absolutely importing cheap labor. It’s not even controversial that the H1-B program has been abused to do just that. The AFL-CIO admits immigrants are needed for labor, but they play more coy about the cheap part.
No no no.
Read this post equating immigration to slavery. A work visa is not slavery absolutely silly to defend this.
This post is not equating immigration and slavery. It is using this thing called a metaphor. It highlights an issue or argument using a comparison that shares relevant characteristics.
This is not a metaphor your English teacher is disappointed
Then what is it?
