It’s just projection as always
4K Ultra DLP LASER Projection®©™
This pissed off alot of libs lmao
What’s this got to do with libs? Comparing TikTok or other Chinese goods to a literal bomb doesn’t make sense, but whatever.
Every single one of those downvotes is from a lib lmao
You see braindead americans saying shit like that about Chinese products; this is a play on that.
You do realize those pagers were made in Taiwan right?
Just in case you hadn’t seen this follow-up:
And some info even suggests that this B.A.C. company was a shell company owned by Israel:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/18/world/middleeast/israel-exploding-pagers-hezbollah.html
By all appearances, B.A.C. Consulting was a Hungary-based company that was under contract to produce the devices on behalf of a Taiwanese company, Gold Apollo. In fact, it was part of an Israeli front, according to three intelligence officers briefed on the operation. They said at least two other shell companies were created as well to mask the real identities of the people creating the pagers: Israeli intelligence officers.
B.A.C. did take on ordinary clients, for which it produced a range of ordinary pagers. But the only client that really mattered was Hezbollah, and its pagers were far from ordinary. Produced separately, they contained batteries laced with the explosive PETN, according to the three intelligence officers.
So let me summarize your own logic.
Mossad did a funny on Hezbollah by setting up a shell company in Hungary. Which is run by Victor Orban who is nominally part of the EU (but they really want to throw Hungary out of the EU). Hungary sides with Russia and Ol’ Puty Poot every chance they get.
Yet somehow the West is at fault for making some spicy pagers.🤔
Sounds like you’re reaching harder than the Iranian ambassador when his pager goes off.
I’m out of the loop here.
Hezbollah uses pagers for communication. Israel intercepted shipments of pagers and rigged them with bombs. Then, an unspecified amount of time later, Israel detonated them during the day, yanno, when people would be out and about in public places. Thousands of bombs went off across Lebanon and killed and injured children, elderly people, and adults.
Of course, mainstream media is trying to pretend that Israel didn’t potentially commit what should be considered a warcrime while assholes on social media are spinning this as a masterfully precise and accurate strike that didn’t have a considerable amount of collateral (I’ve literally seen someone say “only people with something to hide would be around a pager in this day and age” verbatim), and that anyone injured or killed was a member of Hezbollah.
Like, what if one of those had been on a plane when it went off?
When ISIS plants bombs on people and detonates them in public places then it’s a bad thing. Israel does it and everyone stands, claps and tips everyone with $100% bills.
Edit: I honestly wonder if it’s only a matter of time before some IDF or Mossad shithead hijacks a plane and flies it into the Burj Khalifa.
When ISIS bombs a public area, they’re doing it to kill civilians. The target of this pager operation was clearly the people carrying the pagers.
I do agree there was some collateral, but it’s difficult to get any more targeted on this scale.
Last week I murdered an entire family of people across the street and started living in their house. One of their relatives came over and was all angry so I had to kill him and his entire family (human shields) because I needed to feel safe in my own home.
This is very complicated and you’re stupid if you don’t recognize that I’ve lived here since before I was born.
Bombing a police station because there’s a chance one of the cops might try to arrest me.
Bombing the court house so there’s no place for my trial.
Bombing the mayor’s Special Committee On Investigating City Bombings to cover my trail.
Bombing the local field office of the newspaper that’s writing a report on all these bombings.
More people are saying I’m the bad guy, but this is just adding the number of people I have to add to my list of future bomb targets.
I’ll agree that it’s very complicated. But you also can’t frame it like Hezbollah are the good guys. There are no good guys here.
Israel has done some horrible shit, including shooting at kneecaps for fun, not just pushing Palestinians off their land, but then actually settling that land, and treating Palestinians as a lesser people in general. But that doesn’t just excuse constant shelling of Israel or the constant calls for genocide from either side. October 7th doesn’t excuse what Israel’s done in Gaza, and Gaza doesn’t excuse October 7th. This shit doesn’t just cancel out, like so many seem to want to believe.
** There is no good side in the middle east conflict. ** If you’re solely defending and excusing one because of the attacks of the other, you’re just as bad as they are. That’s the reason they’re in this mess; there’s enough people always looking for revenge for the last revenge.
It seems to me that the general internet consensus frames the losing side as the scrappy underdog that is justified in all their actions. Even if the people defending “the innocent” don’t believe that, guess how it’s going to be read by people in and near the conflict.
And to be 1000% clear: Israel deserved October 7; they deserve a thousand of them.
Gaza doesn’t excuse October 7th
Yes it does. Just like every white person ever killed in a slave revolt. Just like every nazi killed in the Warsaw uprising.
And I count you among them.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: ViolenceGood luck with that, reporter: Palestinian right of armed resistance
[UN] General Assembly resolution A/RES/38/17 (22/11/1983) stated that it “Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for their independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial domination, apartheid and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle”.
most based moderator on the entire internet
Oh, and completely intentionally attacking aid workers and literally starving Gaza is absolutely genocide. And I do wish the US would pull back on their support for Israel (outside of an attack from Iran or similar).
I’m absolutely fine with the US shooting down missiles from Iran. We don’t need to help Israel bomb Gaza. We absolutely could exert more control over Israel. But in the end, we don’t control Israel, and the US is largely not responsible for every action they take. I’m sure the US had absolutely no part in this pager scheme, even if I do think it’s a hell of a lot better than what Israel has done in Gaza.
If the social media consensus was the other way I’d be seen as attacking Israel. But let’s see these people defending Hezbollah say anything negative about them.
I and this baby I murdered with my bare hands are exactly moral equivalents to each other. I broke into this child’s house and murdered their entire family. That doesn’t justify them feebly striking me with their soft baby fists. Nor does that attack on me justify how I murdered this helpless child with an ice pick. There are no good guys here.
If you’re not condemning the helpless baby I murdered in terms as strong (or honestly more strong they are brown after all) terms as you condemn me, you’re exactly as evil as “the innocent” brown child I just watched choke on blood because I punctured their little baby lungs.
People always act like I’m the bad guy just because I murdered an entire family and stole their home, and just because I’m infinitely bigger and stronger than the little baby, and because the little baby can only put up a token resistance to me killing them and everyone related to them. Just because they’re the ‘underdog’?? They lost fair and square! It’s just so complicated! The baby kicked me in the crib with it’s little baby feet while I was getting ready to stab it with my ice pick and make it bleed to death! It’s a cycle of violence, not a genocide! I’m not a nazi! It’s complicated!
they could’ve easily just targeted specific individuals (heads of staff, an ambassador apparently) instead of everyone with the pager. it would’ve been much more responsible to know who and where
they could’ve easily just targeted specific individuals
They did target a specific individual - the Iranian ambassador in Lebanon. Everyone else was collateral damage.
Do it at night when people are going to bed. Send out a message to get people to check their pagers, then detonate them. There’s still a chance of collateral, but it’d be significantly lower than detonating them when people will be out in public at the cost of what I imagine would be a slightly lower chance of hitting targets.
Not a war crime; terrorism. Hezbollah is a political organization.
Once again, it needs to be noted that this entire operation was designed to assassinate one guy. The part of the pager shipment was an order made by the Iranian consulate in Lebanon.
Since the Israelis didn’t know which pager was going to the ambassador, they just rigged them all to explode. Then everyone who got caught in the crossfire was labeled “Hezbollah” after the fact.
…That does not, in fact, make it any better.
That makes it even more terrorism.
The west makes electronics which explode using security backdoors.
Secret backdoors… And planted plastic explosives.
Technological appliances which detonate using a classified method of activation.
That’s not how batteries work (at least not with the results seen in this case).
Explosive electronic communication devices were allegedly produced in Hungaria.
[citation needed]
USA and it’s allies are just shoot themselves in the foot with this terror action.
https://x.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1836626658759184595
Posts from Chinese social media, stating factories are running overnight shifts to accommodate huge orders of communication devices from the Middle East.
A requirement from clients, is that the whole manufacturing process must be done inside China.
Yeah, you can’t do something this cartoonishly evil without it leaving a last impact on the reputation of both your country and it’s products.
Sounds like a lot more opportunities to put some spicy batteries in Mid East bound electronic shipments.
This is how the US will console itself after losing billions in sales because of their unhinged little sis.
Naw homie, this had nothing to do with the USA. This is just some good Ol’ Mossad hijinks.
It really just proves the point though. Hardware at time of production is a major security risk and any side needs to be aware and protect themselves.
Also the west…
Those devices were rigged to blow by Israel, who then pulled the trigger.
someone please explain?
The little black box with a screen is a pager. Pagers have been in the news because Israel made a bunch of Hezbollah pagers splode, in case you somehow missed all of that.
Correction: They made pagers explode. Hazbollah preferred, not a necessity.
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Just to correct, the pagers were made by a taiwanese company, not chinese.
The pagers were licensed by the Taiwanese company. Officially produced in Europe by Hungarian company BAC. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/taiwan-firm-denies-making-pagers-used-lebanon-explosions-rcna171594. But BAC a shell company so the rabbit hole continues.
More recent update, all the actual manufacturers were shell companies wholly operated by Mossad.
I think the meme is suggesting that they were literally made by “the West” but maybe I’m missing something
Taiwan is part of the capitalist core which is basically synonymous with the west. Honorary west you could say, at least until its strategic significance drops and it will get abandoned by USA.
I understand that argument, but to me that departs from normal parlance of the kind that would ever be used in a meme.
Seems more like globalism is to blame. They were from a Taiwanese company but manufactured in Hungary.
Guessing the source of the pagers didn’t matter at all and Israel probably intercepted a shipment to plant bombs in them themselves. Lithium batteries can ignite, but they don’t just explode like that. There were bombs put in those pagers, be it by Israel or whoever else, coordinated as a targeted operation.
Now I’m wondering how much of the price we pay is due to the cost of manufacturing and how much is just a bunch of middle-men driving up prices. Maybe this is just a case of a bunch of shell companies organized for military purposes but I’m going to guess that the practice is relatively normal enough that it didn’t raise any red-flags among the other firms involved.
Lithium batteries can ignite, but they don’t just explode like that.
These pagers don’t use lithium battery.
So what other kind of battery would a pager be using that might explode if not lithium? Hydrogen cell?
(CH2N2O2)3
Not a battery but sure, that’s what I was suggesting.
My point is that the lithium battery angel is a diversion and isn’t even relevant.
Agreed
Lipo’s can absolutely burn your house down, but only while overcharging. Igniting a battery while you’re walking around with it will at most burn your pants down, not kill you.
Exactly. I remember early days of smartphones before a lot of the safety precautions we have today were implemented, where we saw tons of videos of batteries spontaneously combusting. They expand, there’s a pop, and then a small burst of flame that will ignite anything it touches, like your pants, tables they’re sitting on while charging, etc. You can get pretty badly burned if this happens while it’s in your pocket.
It’s just that the videos that have come out of these pagers shows an actual explosion, as if they had been packed with C4. Enough to instantly kill some people with them on their person and harm adjacent passerbys.
Yeah as in BURN DOWN and not as in EXPLODE WITH FORCE AND SHRAPNEL.
So it wasn’t just here in Italy that they tried to make us believe it was just a cyber attack… On national tv they brought up an old man so called expert who said they probably disabilitated overheating protection remotely and somehow magically the battery exploded causing that damage … I don’t know if I need to interpret this as an attempt at psychological terrorism or just one of the usual diminishing policy in favor of Israel To be fair they mentioned the probability of an actual bomb but in my opinion such an obvious error must not be carried over especially world wide 😱 It gives me chills that the news industry could make such big errors also while talking about politics crime health …
errors
Assuming it was totally inadvertent. Totally.
You can absolutely make a lipo battery “explode” by overheating it by drawing too much power. But it’s the kind of explosion where it spews hot gas and maybe catches on fire. You’ll definitely get hurt, but that’s about it.
You can do MUCH worse by overcharging it. (note the size of that battery). There will eventually be a fireball if you overcharge it and keep overcharging it when it’s already swollen to a balloon. But you generally don’t charge stuff while it’s in your pocket.
These were actual killing-people-explosions. Lipo batteries don’t do that.
Yeah I know i think that everyone that has ever heard of Lipo fires and dangers with a basic Google search can distinguish between a lipo fire and a high explosive detonating … Lipo are more like a jet of flames ( I had one in my 6 m^3 room wasn’t nice but I’m here) yeah contained what you want It could be a bang, but to some extent… I don’t know what you have seen but videos shown in my local news are impossible to explain with lipo fires …
Can’t find a link sorry
Those people are idiots. You always need to check the credentials and history of people telling you something, and even then - if they’re an expert in security they may know nothing about electronics or explosives or how secret agencies operate.
And yes, news can be really unreliable - on purpose or just out of mistakes. Gotta always keep that in mind as well, but it also reeeally depends on the particular media company.
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It would be strategically counterproductive for Israel if their stated intentions were true. This won’t make hezbollah “uncouple” from Hamas.
The intention is really to start a war so big the US has to step in, which would be catastrophic for everyone, Israelis included.
Is this what happens after being vaccinated? /s
Can someone show me on a map where “the west” starts?
Essentially every country settled primarily by Europeans or their descendants, except somehow Latin America, Russia and Belarus, and, debatable, a few other European countries :D And potentially including Israel
The reason latin america is excluded from the west is because 1) they don’t exploit other countries via finance capital, and 2) most of them preserve both their indigenous cultures and populations, in a way that would be intolerable to US or Israeli settlers.
There was once a term used for this, first world (US and allies) second world (USSR and allies) and third world (neutral-ish nations)
Right in the middle of Berlin.
(This information may be 30 years out of date)
the west is not really a geographic term, and its not really well defined either it has 3 main uses:
most commonly: the west: as in western europe and their settlers colonial offshoots (excluding Spanish and Portuguese ones but including the Spanish and Portuguese themselves)
most uselessly and confusing: the west: as in the global north (also not geographic) in its entirety
and less commonly: the west: as in all european cultures or cultures derived from europe, so most of europe and all settler colonies
excluding Spanish and Portuguese ones but including the Spanish and Portuguese themselves
What ?
excluding Spanish and Portuguese colonies but including the Spanish and Portuguese people themselves i guess i should have said Spain and Portugal instead of referring to their people.
But why exclide them ? Is this an american thing ?
The idea is that Spain and Portugal are part of the “West”, but not Spanish or Portuguese colonial offshoots, which are mostly South American and haven’t fared as well as the colonial offshoots from other nations of western Europe.
they are excluded because the term is descriptive, these countries are excluded by the west from many agreements and organizations, they are exploited by the west and its systems of imperialism. Culturally speaking they are similar but geopolitically speaking they have nothing in common.
Ok so which of these definitions describes Israel?
All three lol
It’s less a geographical or hemispheric distinction, and more a political one.
This page on imperial core is good.
Should Greece really be on that list? The only criterion where it’s not grayed out is “Awarded Parts of China to Japan”, which actually means “signed the Treaty of Versailles after WWI”. And unlike many of the other countries that signed it, Greece did not get anything to itself from it.
Agree, especially considering how much the EU has screwed over Greece in recent years. Not really an exploiter of global south labor via finance capital, which the US, GB, France, Germany, and the Nordic countries, definitely are.
Technically, Australian’s aren’t colonisers; they’re victims of British colonisation.
Aboriginals are the victims
That’s what I said ;)
I presume whenever u say american u always mean amerindians and never anglo-americans.
You’re not making the point you think you are.
I understand the implications of both.
I don’t truly call Australian Aboriginals “Australians”, I was being facetious.
Also, I call them “Native Americans”.
It’s the big blob of central capitalism from when colonialism started to now. It’s where the genocidal whites live, hence why Israel plays in the European soccer league.
I’m not feeling too genocidal at the moment and I’m not too sure what a big blob of capitalism looks like but it sounds like you are impugning me (int al) in some way.
If you are going to deliver a stinging attack on something you dislike, why not deploy an impassioned and pithy argument rather than … that. You do at least manage to spell it’s correctly, which is nice.
Next time you aren’t sure whether someone is being hostile or mean to you, just hold back on what your hypothetical response would be until you’re sure what the intent was.
In my case I was earnestly answering the question. “The West” describes that continuation of institutional power which I described as a blob.
Ah, so even though they’re (trying to) occupy the exact same plot of land, Israel is “the west” (and therefore we’re obligated to hate it) and Palestine is not (and therefore we’re not). That makes sense now!
even though they’re (trying to) occupy the exact same plot of land
Explaining to my Cherokee friends that, really, you’re no better than the European settlers who displaced you because you both wanted to live in Florida. Suddenly, they’re not my friends anymore. Can’t believe they were anti-white racists the whole time.
Where should Israel go back to then? What other land does it have claim to where it should stay?
Ah, right. Of course. You don’t think Israel should exist at all. Judging by this comment I’m guessing you don’t think the US should exist either, which means I don’t have to listen to you
Where should Israel go back to then? What other land does it have claim to where it should stay?
Israel isn’t a person. It can simply dissolve into nothing.
The people who moved there to take part in the land stealing can simply go back where they came. Or they can stay and live alongside the people they tried to genocide as equal citizens.
I’m sure the US government will be delighted to harbor all their war criminals above a certain station.
Not the person you’re responding to
Obviously Israel shouldn’t exist at all. It’s not a diplomatically expedient thing to say, but it’s the only real anti-colonialist answer because Israel is actively a colony. That doesn’t mean expelling all the Jews from Palestine – it might shock you to know there are non-Israeli Jews currently in Palestine – but it does mean that the proper boarders for Palestine are restored and thus that there is no ethnostate (Jewish or otherwise). Recent additions to the Israeli colony (for they are always recruiting) can be sent back to their homelands. Many of them have been there long enough that they have no connection to those homelands anymore (including the more direct descendants of Holocaust survivors, etc.) and they can stay on the land that was Israel, but a lot of them are only there because they like the Jewish ethnostate thing and will therefore flee of their own will. That volume of people fleeing will probably incite still more to flee, but some will remain and they should be treated humanely and as equal citizens, prosecuting whatever crimes they committed but not being treated like subhumans the way that Israelis treated Palestinian prisoners.
The US is a much more difficult question because unlike Israelis being a minority compared to Palestinians, there are many more Euro-Americans, etc than there are Native Americans because the genocidal project of the US is much more complete. Inevitably some land, the land recently taken and some of the more useful land than what the Natives have been left with, should be returned to them, but obviously deporting all the Euros, etc. is neither viable nor productive, like how (to a much, much smaller extent) deporting all the Israelis is neither viable nor productive.
That said, separate from demographics and land rights, the US government absolutely shouldn’t exist because it is terrorizing the world, including through proxies like Israel.
Where should Israel go back to then?
Israel doesn’t have to go anywhere. No more than South Africa went somewhere after Apartheid ended in that state. Or Cuba vanished after the Batista government collapsed. Or Germany vanished after '45.
But the war criminals leading the current genocidal policy towards the people in their care. They need the same treatment as Milosoviec, Omar al-Bashir, and Saddam Hussein.
Drag Netanyahu to the Hague and prosecute him for crimes against humanity. Dismiss the current illegal and unconstitutional Kinesset and hold new free and fair elections in Israel. Provide reparations for the displaced Gaza and West Bank citizens, and launch a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to recover damages for the crimes committed against them.
That is the only moral path forward for Israel.
None of that makes sense. You don’t have the writing chops to pull off a sentence with three clauses and three additional parenthetical clauses.
We’re obligated to hate Israel and not Palestine because Israel is the settler colonial project currently engaged in genocide. It’s very simple and no one has been opaque about it.
A western colony primarily made of western settlers and completely aligned with imperial core countries is western.
It’s a political term rather than geographic. Same reason why Australia isn’t part of the Global South despite being in the south, because it’s controlled by colonizers.
Is it Israel that is completely aligned with these “core” countries because I see them as a terrorist state and I sit firmly in the west.
Israel, along with most western countries, have been bombing (or building bombs) the Middle east and North Africa for decades now.
Ireland is in the west and has recognised Palestine and condemned Israeli actions.
Ireland has some good foreign policy positions due to being a victim of british colonialism for hundreds of years, and feeling affinity with other victims of settler-colonialism, but after the civil war, they fully adopted the model of governance of their oppressors.
Ireland is now just like other western states, ruled by finance capital, and suffers all the same problems (a housing and rent crisis, production exported to low-wage countries, etc). A lot of US tech companies even use Ireland as an off-shore tax-haven.
BAE and Boeing (who manufacture weaponry used against Arab countries and in Palestine) have plants in Ireland. They also let the US use their bases in its war on Iraq, and had active troops in the war to break up Yugoslavia, and also had troops to fight against Syria.
Ireland is kind of a case-study in what not to do after an anti-colonialist revolution.
Is it fuck a case study of what not to do, in 100 years we went from not recognised as a state to the highest labour productivity in the world.
We absolutely did not allownfornour bases to be used by foreign military. We did however allow for refuelling by an ally. We also had caveats about what type of aircraft and cargo could land and refuel.
Oh yes we have heard the tax haven criticism before, butthurt people complaining about how we incentivise foreign investment. As a result ofnpolicies like these we created duty free and duty free industrial zones, which was the initial reason for the headquarters in Ireland given their logistical benefits from setting up here.
We also did not wholly adopt anything, we have a different type of government, we dont have a monarchy and our elections are not first past the post.
I would like to see some stats on the manufacturing being exported because we actually have a lot of foreign companies set up manufacturing here and have done for a long time.
Seems like you dont want us to be on the right side of this issue, for some unknown reason, so you threw out some nonsense.
Labor productivity is a neoliberal metric that uses GDP per capita, that in actuality measures value captured, not value added.. For example, the most “labor productive” countries in the world, are those tax havens in the caribbean. Considering the Irish economy’s dominance by finance capital, that’s completely unsurprising that it would rank so high:
The reason that these large companies utilize child labour and forced labour and labour under such conditions is simple; profits. This is where Ireland comes into play, in its role helping these large multinational corporations maximize the profit they gain from exploiting such labour conditions. Of the five companies named in the lawsuit, Apple, Dell, Google and Microsoft all have their European headquarters in Ireland. So, one would logically ask why this might be. Perhaps it is our highly skilled and trained population? Or maybe our location on the very western edge of the continent makes it more convenient for big-wig employees to fly to and from Ireland? Or could it possibly be that these companies are attracted by the striking beauty of our cities, towns and wild landscapes? Or, may I suggest, is it our friendly, open, hospitable and charmingly roguish nature that means companies cannot help but to set up their regional headquarters here? Or could it be that Ireland is essentially a tax haven that allows them to maximize their profits?(14) Ah, yes, I think we’ve found the solution to that riddle then. The study, authored by Thomas Wright and Gabriel Zucman, reveals that U.S. multinationals book roughly 18% of their foreign profits in Ireland, more than anywhere else in the world.(15) Ireland’s laws also help U.S. corporations to achieve a pre-tax profits-to-wages ratio of 800%.(16) In the end this amounts to Apple owing the Irish government €13 billion in back taxes, and a legal dispute with the European Union. In 2016 the European Commission ruled that Ireland had given unfair tax advantages to Apple to the sum of €13 billion, a decision which the Irish government itself appealed. Eventually the decision was overturned by the European General Court in July this year (2020), although further legal challenges to that decision may be forthcoming.(17) It is also important to note that the figure of €13 billion is only for the case of Apple and does not include how much taxes other multinational companies may owe, so the actual figure is so high it does not bear thinking about.
We also did not wholly adopt anything, we have a different type of government, we dont have a monarchy and our elections are not first past the post.
Ireland is a bourgeois democracy / capitalist dictatorship just like GB, and it doesn’t matter what form your elections take. The important point is that capital (specifically finance-capital) stands above your political system. Australia also doesn’t use FPTP, yet its able to use that voting system to continue its colonization and theft of aboriginal land. These alternative voting systems have proven to be no obstacles in the slightest for capitalists.
We absolutely did not allownfornour bases to be used by foreign military. We did however allow for refuelling by an ally. We also had caveats about what type of aircraft and cargo could land and refuel.
The US racial state, which built its wealth on the graves of its indigenous inhabitants, and enslaved millions of captured Africans, is not a good military ally to have. If Ireland were actually anti-imperialist, there would not even be a debate on allowing the US military to use its bases, especially given the context of its wars on Iraq.
Here’s another good article on Ireland’s role in imperialism and its internal crises.
The most significant western governments still finance Israel’s existence, that doesn’t mean every single western person or even country gets along with Israel
Here: https://xkcd.com/503/
Apparently the middle west
Anything NA and anything west of (including) Germany.
I dunno if I would consider CZ to the west.Poland is definitely The West too, honestly more than Mexico. It’s basically a code for white nations and the vassal states of white nations.
Feels more Slavic than anything Germany (except east germany), France, Austria etc.
But that could be just my personal observation.
In some cultural or ethnic sense, you’re probably right (though there’s the classic joke in Europe that the East starts one country to the east of theirs) but what I mean is that Poland operates as part of what you could call the North Atlanticist bloc.
