I’m Canadian. It really isn’t more accurate to say “Democrats and Republicans” because while people here are very effected by those party policies we do not have a vote. It’s like living above a meth lab and hoping your neighbours don’t do anything stupid.
I said right wing because it’s more universally applicable and transphobia echos across countries. What happens in the UK or US or France or Australian conservative spaces for example tends to empower other conservative and far right narratives elsewhere in a domino effect. If one trans person does something somewhere noisy or some conservative “raises concerns” regarding some weird bullshit in any of those countries there’s a chunk of my coworkers who are gunna spend the afternoon having an open discussion about how people like me are a social/logistical/medical/safety problem where I am in earshot.
Fair enough, fuck the party names. …and yes, the US is the world’s shitshow right now.
But, if you want to do something that when compared with 97+ percent of the populous is socially different, medically different, logistically different, and introduces new situations for people to interact with, they will need to have those conversations to determine how to accommodate you.
That does not mean you shouldn’t be permitted to be who you are. But those conversations must happen, social changes need to be sorted out, logistical changes need to be implemented, medical structure needs to be adapted, and safety concerns need to be addressed.
…and everybody’s going to have an opinion, and that’s all going to get so sorted out in time, and the person that just wants things to be simple and not make logistical changes is going to grouse about it, etc. That’s all just a part of change - including the real assholes having their say before things change anyways. Because everybody gets a voice.
See the issue with these “everyone has an opinion” thing is it is kinda bullshit. I hear way too often these narratives that young kids are getting bottom surgery for basically being tomboys… And that is from the trans community, easily observable truth standpoint not just a lie - it’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie. We aren’t having the conversation about comfort or about quality of life or about safety, we are having debates about sources perpetuated by people who are legit profiting off of spreading deliberate and harmful falsehoods because it sells books, speaking engagement tickets, ad revenue and political power.
And these assholes have no clue that when you are talking about shit that directly effects your quality of life your reaction isn’t that of casual interest, it’s frustrating, stressful and makes doing your job ten times harder because you have to bite through your tongue to not be tempted to rip their heads verbally off their shoulders when they imply you’re a pedophile and not safe to be around children.
These conversations often happen in places where we cannot walk away because it’s our job to be in that particular room, or truck cab or three foot square. There isn’t the recognition that these conversations held on company time are not consequenceless for us. Forced into these stressful situations people literally get sick. Stress destroys you at a cellular level and you can see it in real time. “Debating” about trans issues is consequenceless only for them while we take it home in the form of acne breakouts and gut issues, immune system problems and inflammation.
They can have those conversations on their own dime and honestly, while they are at work they can shut the fuck up because I am not getting paid extra for all the take home extra labour required for them to speak their dehumanizing misiformed peice.
Well, I’m not going to read all that. Now we’re getting into areas that are how you live your life. Aside from making sure there’s reasonable infrastructure to handle that, i have no real opinion. But not everything’s going to be easy, and people will talk about things you wish they didn’t - but they still need to sort it out for themselves, in their own way.
…and of course, not understanding you, they’ll be off-base sometimes. That’s life, and you’ll just have to wait for change to propagate.
It’s not a good look to post an 8 paragraph long comment reply, and then later declare that you’re “not going to read all that” in response to someone else’s shorter reply
But sorry I was so dismissive - I was low on time, and on skimming it, it looked like a bunch of stuff that strayed into areas that I can’t or don’t think will be fruitful. But, I’ll give it a more detailed read, and weigh in.
See the issue with these “everyone has an opinion” thing is it is kinda bullshit. I hear way too often these narratives that young kids are getting bottom surgery for basically being tomboys… And that is from the community standpoint not just a lie - it’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie. We aren’t having the conversation about comfort or about quality of life or about safety, we are having debates about sources perpetuated by people who are legit profiting off of spreading deliberate and harmful falsehoods because it sells books, speaking engagement tickets, ad revenue and political power.
I don’t think it’s bullshit at all. “Everyone’s got an opinion” is both a way of acknowledging that people can and will think whatever they want, and that it’s not necessarily something I (or anyone) has to agree with. So I think it fits rather well. I can’t prevent the hatred of others, I can only live in accord with my own soul.
Someone cannot use common sense on something that already is outside of their realm of familiarity. Common sense requires familiarity, and people tend to believe what they hope or fear, when conceptualization strays into the unknown. So people will have dumb concepts, sometimes from people who prey on their lack of knowledge of the unknown.
If that unknown then lashes out at them and says something like “that’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie”, then that’s a missed opportunity to have just said something like “yeah, no. That’s not a thing. But if you want to learn more about it, talk to me.”
Thing is, people get upset pretty easily, and people get mis- or dis-informed pretty easily. Those kinds of people need acceptance of their lack of knowledge, and rational communication of a better way without a lot of emotional charge.
But as to manipulators spreading lies - that will always be. And having our own shit together helps to fight those types, without getting knocked off-balance.
And these assholes have no clue that when you are talking about shit that directly effects your quality of life your reaction isn’t that of casual interest, it’s frustrating, stressful and makes doing your job ten times harder because you have to bite through your tongue to not be tempted to rip their heads verbally off their shoulders when they imply you’re a pedophile and not safe to be around children.
It sucks for people to think that. It’s kinda more common now with the general opinion on males, but I think it probably sucks worse when your identity is less clearly defined in the minds of others - or worse, they’ve got some narrative. But misconceptions, again, are a thing.
The only thing I would do is live my own way, and retain my own balance internally. If I’m screaming at people in my head, regardless of whether they’ve fucked up, I know I’ve fucked up. But of course, what I’d do doesn’t necessarily work for others.
These conversations often happen in places where we cannot walk away because it’s our job to be in that particular room, or truck cab or three foot square. There isn’t the recognition that these conversations held on company time are not consequenceless for us.
I would communicate that. Clearly. “Look, I don’t sit here and talk about how the GOP are a bunch of Nazis and pedophiles, because that would possibly be a misconception, and clearly divisive. Can you refrain from having this conversation right now, so that I can keep my head cool and actually work on what we’re paid to do?” And if they can’t take that, then it’s job hunting time.
Forced into these stressful situations people literally get sick. Stress destroys you at a cellular level and you can see it in real time. “Debating” about trans issues is consequenceless only for them while we take it home in the form of acne breakouts and gut issues, immune system problems and inflammation.
Indeed. I’m familiar. When there’s no common ground, and you’ve got to carve out your own niche, address your own issues, and every interaction is like handling a bag of snakes. It’s so easy to cascade and go on tilt. Then, if you go on tilt, they feel the same about you, because your feels are all fucked, and you’re yelling in your head at them. It’s easy to say “if only they would…”, but the reality is that you’re the only one that can address your own feelings, unless fate gave you some particularly lucky hand. Even if they’re the assholes, the place you can most powerfully have an impact is your own heart and mind. And if you do sort things out, that spreads, naturally.
Culture has a massive, hidden benefit, and being outside of one, on the edge, means you lose that. Keeping your stance, and finding a common ground can be very, very, hard.
They can have those conversations on their own dime and honestly, while they are at work they can shut the fuck up because I am not getting paid extra for all the take home extra labour required for them to speak their dehumanizing misiformed peice.
Yeah, well. Good luck out there. I hope you find a place you fit well, and a way of thinking about things that works for you.
If that unknown then lashes out at them and says something like “that’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie”, then that’s a missed opportunity to have just said something like "yeah, no. That’s not a thing. But if you want to learn more about it, talk to me.
…
Do you honestly think that’s how I interact with these people? I’m sorry, but what are you founding this assumption on? The way I voice my internal thoughts when I am on a message board? I don’t need a lesson in diplomacy asshole, I practice it everyday and I don’t need someone preaching at me how I should be interacting with these people as if I never attended kindergarten.
You remind me very much of my elementary school principal whose sparkling innovation to combating bullying was to tell students that when they were getting bullied they should put their hand out like they were directing traffic and say "Hey, I respect you, please respect me. "… Not one of us even young as we were were idiots enough to believe that wouldn’t make things worse.
This inflated sense of “Freedom of Speech” in people doesn’t just come with a caveat of belief that they can say what they want without consequences it also comes with a belief that they are entitled to broadcast wherever they see fit irrespective of circumstance or harm. When you challenge that entitlement in any way they have been trained to veiw you as a threat to fucking democracy and some of them will see fit to retaliate. Which is why all those useless harassment seminars need a gods damned update.
And no I am not going to “get a new job” I am a 12 year veteran in film in one of the most trans accepting places on the planet. This is my career. Want to talk tonedeaf? It’s telling someone facing a systemic prosecution to abandon their progress with the assumption it’s gunna be better elsewhere.
No, I don’t think that’s how you interact with those people, and I didn’t make the assumption that you did.
But, when people feel strongly about something (to where that’s your preferred word choice, and likely your internal feeling on the matter) that comes across, consciously or otherwise, and blocks communication. Ever talk to someone who’s all friendly in word, but you know they would be screaming at you if they could?
It shows.
I don’t need a lesson in diplomacy asshole [etc]
Clearly not. Your diplomacy is the stuff of legends.
This inflated sense of “Freedom of Speech” in people doesn’t just come with a caveat of belief that they can say what they want without consequences it also comes with a belief that they are entitled to broadcast wherever they see fit irrespective of circumstance or harm
Uh-huh. …your capacity to hold to your own principles appears to be lacking. I don’t entirely agree with your principles, anyways, but at least they could be consistently applied. There is a massive difference between bullying and simply discussing something. I have seen bullying occur in sidelong ways. But not everybody who discusses this stuff is doing so. There are real considerations that need to be addressed, and people will address them, in time - partly through conversations wherever people meet up, including sometimes on-the-clock at work. I can say what I’d do in your situation whether it’s bullying or otherwise, but you’re clearly disinterested in that.
It’s not always going to be better elsewhere, that’s true. But what you can’t work around and won’t leave, you need to work with. And although it’s a lot to carry, that puts the ball in your court. People aren’t born knowing you and being familiar with your situation, your quirks, your experiences, your history. That’s you. Not them. The rest comes from communication.
…and if that doesn’t work, you go your own ways, or fight, I suppose. That’s life, and it’s the foundation of all this civilization, and of all things we’ve discovered that are generally better than simply fighting. But if those better things don’t work, it’s back to the foundation.
Let me be clear. You come across as smug. Complacent. Self centered. Your privilege places you in a position where your deal is accepted as the norm… But when you preach from that position don’t expect anyone who doesn’t share your position to thank you for it. Your reaction to the frustration is essentially to say “Well that’s tough but that’s how it is.” Which is in so many words just saying “Fuck you.”
“Oh I’m not going to read all that but here’s my opinion anyway” is saying “Oh you aren’t deserving of my most basic consideration”.
Your ‘diplomacy’ lacks humanity. It’s just a thin veneer. Really you are a content bystander who self soothes that really there isn’t anything you should be doing because really that would be taking sides. All I said is that the consequences of those people’s actions are I find them a nuisance to be around and here you are finding that so offensive that you feel the need to dicker me into saying that what they are doing is fine actually and that it doesn’t cause me any adverse mental health effects or physical stress symptoms… So what you want me to lie to make you feel better about doing nothing? No let’s face it you want to do worse than nothing. You want to shore up the positions of and act as the white knight for the people who find it perfectly acceptable to make my workplace harder to be in.
You are an asshole who doesn’t want to have a discussion in earnest, you just want to have a venue to feel superior. Like some bastion of decorum and logic while lacking any flexibility of thought. You are just a troll and you have had enough of my time.
I’m Canadian. It really isn’t more accurate to say “Democrats and Republicans” because while people here are very effected by those party policies we do not have a vote. It’s like living above a meth lab and hoping your neighbours don’t do anything stupid.
I said right wing because it’s more universally applicable and transphobia echos across countries. What happens in the UK or US or France or Australian conservative spaces for example tends to empower other conservative and far right narratives elsewhere in a domino effect. If one trans person does something somewhere noisy or some conservative “raises concerns” regarding some weird bullshit in any of those countries there’s a chunk of my coworkers who are gunna spend the afternoon having an open discussion about how people like me are a social/logistical/medical/safety problem where I am in earshot.
Fuck the party names. It’s all the same.
Fair enough, fuck the party names. …and yes, the US is the world’s shitshow right now.
But, if you want to do something that when compared with 97+ percent of the populous is socially different, medically different, logistically different, and introduces new situations for people to interact with, they will need to have those conversations to determine how to accommodate you.
That does not mean you shouldn’t be permitted to be who you are. But those conversations must happen, social changes need to be sorted out, logistical changes need to be implemented, medical structure needs to be adapted, and safety concerns need to be addressed.
…and everybody’s going to have an opinion, and that’s all going to get so sorted out in time, and the person that just wants things to be simple and not make logistical changes is going to grouse about it, etc. That’s all just a part of change - including the real assholes having their say before things change anyways. Because everybody gets a voice.
See the issue with these “everyone has an opinion” thing is it is kinda bullshit. I hear way too often these narratives that young kids are getting bottom surgery for basically being tomboys… And that is from the trans community, easily observable truth standpoint not just a lie - it’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie. We aren’t having the conversation about comfort or about quality of life or about safety, we are having debates about sources perpetuated by people who are legit profiting off of spreading deliberate and harmful falsehoods because it sells books, speaking engagement tickets, ad revenue and political power.
And these assholes have no clue that when you are talking about shit that directly effects your quality of life your reaction isn’t that of casual interest, it’s frustrating, stressful and makes doing your job ten times harder because you have to bite through your tongue to not be tempted to rip their heads verbally off their shoulders when they imply you’re a pedophile and not safe to be around children.
These conversations often happen in places where we cannot walk away because it’s our job to be in that particular room, or truck cab or three foot square. There isn’t the recognition that these conversations held on company time are not consequenceless for us. Forced into these stressful situations people literally get sick. Stress destroys you at a cellular level and you can see it in real time. “Debating” about trans issues is consequenceless only for them while we take it home in the form of acne breakouts and gut issues, immune system problems and inflammation.
They can have those conversations on their own dime and honestly, while they are at work they can shut the fuck up because I am not getting paid extra for all the take home extra labour required for them to speak their dehumanizing misiformed peice.
Well, I’m not going to read all that. Now we’re getting into areas that are how you live your life. Aside from making sure there’s reasonable infrastructure to handle that, i have no real opinion. But not everything’s going to be easy, and people will talk about things you wish they didn’t - but they still need to sort it out for themselves, in their own way.
…and of course, not understanding you, they’ll be off-base sometimes. That’s life, and you’ll just have to wait for change to propagate.
It’s not a good look to post an 8 paragraph long comment reply, and then later declare that you’re “not going to read all that” in response to someone else’s shorter reply
Fair enough.
Wow. “I’m not going to read all that” huh? Fuck you too. 🖕
Well, everybody’s got an opinion, even you.
But sorry I was so dismissive - I was low on time, and on skimming it, it looked like a bunch of stuff that strayed into areas that I can’t or don’t think will be fruitful. But, I’ll give it a more detailed read, and weigh in.
I don’t think it’s bullshit at all. “Everyone’s got an opinion” is both a way of acknowledging that people can and will think whatever they want, and that it’s not necessarily something I (or anyone) has to agree with. So I think it fits rather well. I can’t prevent the hatred of others, I can only live in accord with my own soul.
Someone cannot use common sense on something that already is outside of their realm of familiarity. Common sense requires familiarity, and people tend to believe what they hope or fear, when conceptualization strays into the unknown. So people will have dumb concepts, sometimes from people who prey on their lack of knowledge of the unknown.
If that unknown then lashes out at them and says something like “that’s a dumbass, holy shit where the fuck are you getting this absolute brainrot use your fucking critical thinking skills for a minute - lie”, then that’s a missed opportunity to have just said something like “yeah, no. That’s not a thing. But if you want to learn more about it, talk to me.”
Thing is, people get upset pretty easily, and people get mis- or dis-informed pretty easily. Those kinds of people need acceptance of their lack of knowledge, and rational communication of a better way without a lot of emotional charge.
But as to manipulators spreading lies - that will always be. And having our own shit together helps to fight those types, without getting knocked off-balance.
It sucks for people to think that. It’s kinda more common now with the general opinion on males, but I think it probably sucks worse when your identity is less clearly defined in the minds of others - or worse, they’ve got some narrative. But misconceptions, again, are a thing.
The only thing I would do is live my own way, and retain my own balance internally. If I’m screaming at people in my head, regardless of whether they’ve fucked up, I know I’ve fucked up. But of course, what I’d do doesn’t necessarily work for others.
I would communicate that. Clearly. “Look, I don’t sit here and talk about how the GOP are a bunch of Nazis and pedophiles, because that would possibly be a misconception, and clearly divisive. Can you refrain from having this conversation right now, so that I can keep my head cool and actually work on what we’re paid to do?” And if they can’t take that, then it’s job hunting time.
Indeed. I’m familiar. When there’s no common ground, and you’ve got to carve out your own niche, address your own issues, and every interaction is like handling a bag of snakes. It’s so easy to cascade and go on tilt. Then, if you go on tilt, they feel the same about you, because your feels are all fucked, and you’re yelling in your head at them. It’s easy to say “if only they would…”, but the reality is that you’re the only one that can address your own feelings, unless fate gave you some particularly lucky hand. Even if they’re the assholes, the place you can most powerfully have an impact is your own heart and mind. And if you do sort things out, that spreads, naturally.
Culture has a massive, hidden benefit, and being outside of one, on the edge, means you lose that. Keeping your stance, and finding a common ground can be very, very, hard.
Yeah, well. Good luck out there. I hope you find a place you fit well, and a way of thinking about things that works for you.
…
Do you honestly think that’s how I interact with these people? I’m sorry, but what are you founding this assumption on? The way I voice my internal thoughts when I am on a message board? I don’t need a lesson in diplomacy asshole, I practice it everyday and I don’t need someone preaching at me how I should be interacting with these people as if I never attended kindergarten.
You remind me very much of my elementary school principal whose sparkling innovation to combating bullying was to tell students that when they were getting bullied they should put their hand out like they were directing traffic and say "Hey, I respect you, please respect me. "… Not one of us even young as we were were idiots enough to believe that wouldn’t make things worse.
This inflated sense of “Freedom of Speech” in people doesn’t just come with a caveat of belief that they can say what they want without consequences it also comes with a belief that they are entitled to broadcast wherever they see fit irrespective of circumstance or harm. When you challenge that entitlement in any way they have been trained to veiw you as a threat to fucking democracy and some of them will see fit to retaliate. Which is why all those useless harassment seminars need a gods damned update.
And no I am not going to “get a new job” I am a 12 year veteran in film in one of the most trans accepting places on the planet. This is my career. Want to talk tonedeaf? It’s telling someone facing a systemic prosecution to abandon their progress with the assumption it’s gunna be better elsewhere.
No, I don’t think that’s how you interact with those people, and I didn’t make the assumption that you did.
But, when people feel strongly about something (to where that’s your preferred word choice, and likely your internal feeling on the matter) that comes across, consciously or otherwise, and blocks communication. Ever talk to someone who’s all friendly in word, but you know they would be screaming at you if they could?
It shows.
Clearly not. Your diplomacy is the stuff of legends.
Uh-huh. …your capacity to hold to your own principles appears to be lacking. I don’t entirely agree with your principles, anyways, but at least they could be consistently applied. There is a massive difference between bullying and simply discussing something. I have seen bullying occur in sidelong ways. But not everybody who discusses this stuff is doing so. There are real considerations that need to be addressed, and people will address them, in time - partly through conversations wherever people meet up, including sometimes on-the-clock at work. I can say what I’d do in your situation whether it’s bullying or otherwise, but you’re clearly disinterested in that.
It’s not always going to be better elsewhere, that’s true. But what you can’t work around and won’t leave, you need to work with. And although it’s a lot to carry, that puts the ball in your court. People aren’t born knowing you and being familiar with your situation, your quirks, your experiences, your history. That’s you. Not them. The rest comes from communication.
…and if that doesn’t work, you go your own ways, or fight, I suppose. That’s life, and it’s the foundation of all this civilization, and of all things we’ve discovered that are generally better than simply fighting. But if those better things don’t work, it’s back to the foundation.
Let me be clear. You come across as smug. Complacent. Self centered. Your privilege places you in a position where your deal is accepted as the norm… But when you preach from that position don’t expect anyone who doesn’t share your position to thank you for it. Your reaction to the frustration is essentially to say “Well that’s tough but that’s how it is.” Which is in so many words just saying “Fuck you.”
“Oh I’m not going to read all that but here’s my opinion anyway” is saying “Oh you aren’t deserving of my most basic consideration”.
Your ‘diplomacy’ lacks humanity. It’s just a thin veneer. Really you are a content bystander who self soothes that really there isn’t anything you should be doing because really that would be taking sides. All I said is that the consequences of those people’s actions are I find them a nuisance to be around and here you are finding that so offensive that you feel the need to dicker me into saying that what they are doing is fine actually and that it doesn’t cause me any adverse mental health effects or physical stress symptoms… So what you want me to lie to make you feel better about doing nothing? No let’s face it you want to do worse than nothing. You want to shore up the positions of and act as the white knight for the people who find it perfectly acceptable to make my workplace harder to be in.
You are an asshole who doesn’t want to have a discussion in earnest, you just want to have a venue to feel superior. Like some bastion of decorum and logic while lacking any flexibility of thought. You are just a troll and you have had enough of my time.