Ha! I posed this query to my daughter just the other day. We are both aphantastic and have no chess abilities at all.
I was a decently rated chess player (nationally) in my youth and I have level 5 aphantasia i.e. I see nothing at all.
While I absolutely cannot play or picture game states without a physical board in front of me like most pros can, I had no great difficulty otherwise.
I practiced with a friend at the same general skill level that was very good at playing sans voir, which incidentally is how I realized I don’t have the same mental imagery as him. This was ~25 years ago, and I didn’t run into the word aphantasia until around 2020.
Wait, how do you get ranked for aphantasia? I did sure have it but have never had a name for it
As I understand it it’s simply differing amounts of realism in one’s recall.
I did discuss it briefly with my physician but he more or less shrugged it away as a novelty that can’t be helped. He showed me the chart on Wikipedia and mentioned the lack of information about it in general but also that there might be some overlap with autism.
I have a feeling that it’ll be a while before it can be adequately explained.
I have a middling case of aphantasia. I can create a basic image, blurry shapes, low detail, etc. with a lot of focus and concentration. I struggle immensely with faces I haven’t seen a lot, and spatial orientation. Beyond that, I simply think in terms of words more than images.
As far as chess, this means I’m logically thinking out the moves, rather than mentally picturing it. I tend to get a bit overwheled trying to internalize the new board state after more than a couple of moves. I also don’t play chess much, though, and would probably simply train that ability by playing more, just like someone without aphantasia will train visualizing more board shapes ahead.
I’ve always suspected my wife has this, and I just inquired. She said she can’t picture faces or things, but can recognize them. Her memories are more like feelings. I asked if she were separated from our daughter in an apocalypse, if she could remember what she looked like. She said, “I have no idea what she looks like right now.”
Now she’s in kind of a dark place.
She’ll get through it. I had a similar experience, but it passed. I can’t picture my daughter in my mind, but I can describe her and recognize her and, as it happens, she has aphantasia, too. Indeed, I only realized I did because of her. She said that, because she is autistic and has always known how different she is, she knew it wasn’t just metaphorical when people spoke of “mind’s eye” and “picturing” things. Remind her of how much aphantasia frees her from. I wouldn’t trade.
This is the level that I am at and it’s hard to explain to people that, “no, I don’t remember so-and-so’s smile on their birthday.” Like the feeling of the experiences are there and an analytical capture is, but vision? Gone the second I don’t see it anymore
It’s possible that she hasn’t got aphantasia, but something called face blindness (prosopagnosia). The Wikipedia might be an interesting read for you guys!
This matches my experience. Everything and everyone has a feeling, not so much a word, or an image, or a number, but a simple to recall, and hard to explain feeling.
If she’s still in that dark place, ask her whether she can recall what your daughter’s “feeling” in her head. If she’s anything like myself, that feeling is the sum of her relationship with your daughter all in an instant. Not only is that something you probably can’t do that she can, it is an interesting way to perceive others. It helps a lot with code switching too, that same feeling of someone else also sets the tone with which you can effectively communicate with them in my experience, though it doesn’t work on everyone.
I can’t imagine my families faces, and I prob couldn’t even manage a photofit of my own face to be fair. Its strange when you first realise this isn’t standard for most people and its actually a thing.
Put photos in a necklace for your wife or something similar if it bothers her.
That would actually be a really thoughtful gift, OP should do that.
It’s hard to imagine… not imagining images. It’s such a weird perspective to think about.
Aphantasia is a condition that prevents people from creating mental imagery . It is rare, affecting only about 4% of the global population… My visual memory is like looking through a frosted window. I see some colors and blobby shape and that’s about it.
I found it very interesting to learn that they believe aphantasics can form the mental image, they just can’t access it. Minds are amazing!
4% is a pretty big chunk of the population. That’s 1 in every 25 people. Which makes it all the more insane that nobody realised it existed as a condition until just a few years ago.
It really depends on how you define aphantasia. Often the VVIQ score is used, a vividness score ranging from 16 to 80.
About 0,8 % of people have a score of 16, and 3,9 % have a score <= 32. The figures are from one of the more recent studies. Other studies report similar figures, for example one study by Zeman found 0,7 % with a score of 16.
About ¼ of all people with visual aphantasia also have multisensory aphantasia (all classical senses and emotions).
It just doesn’t come up all that much. Folks live without knowing they are different.
And it is on a spectrum. Some folks is nothing others are can force a few pictures if they have to but aren’t clear. I dunno.
Aphantasia is not actually a real condition btw, the whole “imagine an apple” discourse is completely lacking in rigor. It’s like the online ADHD discourse, or MENSA. It’s a way for boring people to talk about themselves to each other. (Like most of Reddit and Wikipedia.)
We got a no-apple-seer over here
No, everyone can imagine an apple. This is stupid. Even this guy admitted he can remember things, he’s just not satisfied with the quality. A cup of coffee would make him see an apple.
Lol wtf are you on about. It’s realistic to you that people can have PTSD, hyperphantasia, photographic memory, schizophrenia, bipolar, blindness/deafness, multiple sclerosis, and all these other otherworldy experiences which most people wouldn’t believe without being educated on it, but not realistic that a portion of people have deficient or non-existent mental imagery? Or even that a portion of people have ADHD?
I seriously doubt that you know better than neuroscience&psychology researchers and people who have the disorder but alright.
Also aphantasia isn’t “no remember thingies”. Memory is complex and it isn’t reliant on your ability to project images into your vision.
I have never been able to actually mentally visualize something, I always thought “imagine being in your happy place” was a metaphor and not that you’re actually supposed to visualize a place. I have always took “visualize” to mean not literally putting it in your vision, but just thinking about the fact of a situation. The closest I have to actually being able to picture an image/object is dreams and sleep paralysis hallucinations lol. No amount of caffeine or concerta could possibly change that. You’re crazy if you think because you can’t imagine it that there’s a conspiracy of “so-called aphantasiacs and medical researchers” who are lying about the existence of lacking mental imagery.
I’m curious as to where you allegedly saw aphantasia being “debunked” because all there seems to be is crazies on internet forums (specifically, Reddit and ycombinator) who notably aren’t psychology researchers, have no qualifications regarding the matter, and are just random people who want to feel like they cracked the code. Often times it’s people who have never been able to visualize who think their deficiency of mental imagery is the norm and that most other people have never been able to visualize either.
I’m also curious as to whether you think developmental/congenital prosopagnosia is fake or if it’s just a phase like you think aphantasia is.
“Neuroscience researchers” but you don’t post a source, just an essay on how invested you are in this being real. Keep huffing that Quanta magazine, buddy. MBTI testing is also horseshit. I didn’t see it “debunked” on Hacker News and Reddit, those are the #1 aphantasia and ADHD havers in the entire world. It’s hilarious you think something less rigorous than IQ testing is on the same level as PTSD
“Neuroscience researchers” but you don’t post a source, just an essay on how invested you are in this being real.
These are by Rebecca Keogh (and others), an actual cognitive neuroscience specialist/psychology researcher who has a PhD from one of the most well-regarded universities in Australia. Here they establish that there is real evidence that aphantasiacs lack mental imagery, and finds that there is no evidence backing the claim that “aphantasiacs have mental imagery”. Keogh also has some works that delve deeper into mental imagery and how it’s a spectrum, including aphantasiacs and hyperphantasiacs.
Here’s Cleveland Clinic casually affirming its existence too.
I shouldn’t even have to give sources because I’m not the one claiming an abnormality in visual imagery is fake but here you go anyways.
It literally comes up immediately when you search for aphantasia research. You clearly have not even tried to find research on aphantasia. Now where are your sources? I notice you didn’t link any, at all.
MBTI testing is also horseshit.
??? Where in the god damn fuck did I mention MBTI or personality tests in general in my original comment?
I didn’t see it “debunked” on Hacker News and Reddit, those are the #1 aphantasia and ADHD havers in the entire world.
And yet you don’t mention where you “saw it debunked”, just stating that you totally did bro.
It’s hilarious you think something less rigorous than IQ testing is on the same level as PTSD
Again, you are being crazy, you are quite literally making up arguments to attack out of your ass.
I don’t know why you decided this is the hill for you to die on despite you clearly having no idea of what you’re talking about and most respected psychology & neuroscience/cognition researchers who have tackled the subject clearly not being aligned with your views on the matter at all, and what makes you think you have any authority to just call a scientifically measured and agreed-to -exist phenomenon fake, but go ahead and have a tantrum and pretend you know anything about the subject I guess.
If you respond with internet magazines or a shitty YouTube video essay as your source I’m gonna laugh myself to asphyxiation
Does Aphantasia also cause the development of superhuman levels of patience? Because my dude, i don’t know how you managed to entertain this troll for as long as you have. This whole thread was highly entertaining though, so thanks for that, lol.
(I know it goes deeper but i didn’t want to bury my comment that far down)
Psychology Today has done a number on you, what a frantically googling moron, the first study has N=15, it’s entirely based on self-diagnosis and surveys. They want to come up with a neurological basis for it based off fifteen people self-reporting fuck off lmfao.
Oh wow she has a PHD??? We have to listen to her obviously. I hate pseuds and their credentialism hahahaha you’re full of it
Can’t wait to see the second one.
This is like when my sister decided she was a super taster and that cilantro tastes like soap.
I never said I was particularly impressed with the rigor of ALL NEUROSCIENTISTS, they are as bad as physicists involved with string theory. Unfalsifiable nonsense. This is the kind of shit I’m talking about when I trash the entire field of “smart science” that’s been picked up by TPOT and Lesswrong and other pseuds.
saw it debunked
Oh you want me to prove aphantasia isn’t real lol, no wonder you have trouble with things like this where people play word games, you’re completely devoid of logic. The onus is on you, and neuroscientists, to prove it exists.
What you did is go pull every paper you could possibly find which reinforces your identity.
This happens to me periodically and I seriously think it means we just need more potassium, less sleep disruption, and more time in nature to absorb green colors (soothing in memory, gives you good dreams) and exercise the eye muscles with long distance focus.
Absorb green colors haha. How many crystals should I carry while I do the absorption?
I don’t see things in my head, it’s still blank but i can imagine the concepts. Do i have aphantasia? My dreams are vivid tho
I have total aphantasia and am exactly the same.
