I think that definition of socialism is insufficient. It sounds like an end-goal. I thought we were all communists. We wanted the dissolution of all hierarchy, of the state and of classes, of money and work.
Wait, what’s the end-goal, then? Socialism, or the dissolution of all hierarchies?
Socialism is an economic mode, not necessarily an end-goal. Worker’s ownership of the means of production is a clear, consice, and not ideologically chargeddefinition.
Socialism was then just born as a way to define what comes right after capitalism, and right before communism.
That’s what Lenin invented, without ever really relying on a clear definition of the term. (Marx used “communism” and “socialism” interchangeably)
In the end, everything the Bolsheviki did was defined as “socialism”, robbing the term of any proper meaning. Hell, even China claims that it is “socialist”.
We can still all agree that those are two different socialisms in themselves. It won’t look the same right after capitalism from right before communism.
I don’t really agree that societal development necessarily happens in these stages, so I don’t really agree with your premise of clearly defined stages between “capitalism” and “communism”. It’s too focused on Hegelian dialectics, while I want to focus more on systems analysis.
But getting back to it, how does your socialism maintain itself without markets? How does it protect itself?
I’m not really in the mood to explain a complete hypothetical socialist political system, just because you don’t accept the most common definition of socialism. I can insteand direct you to the anarchist FAQ. There, they broadly address economics, self-defense and other questions you might have.
Marxism rejects Hegelian dialectics, which are Idealist, in favor of Dialectical Materialism. DiaMat does not believe that societal development necessarily happens in clear cut stages, but that each stage of development contians within it both elements of the previous stage, and the next stage. The next “stage” is not necessarily the same! There are numerous paths, but the resolving of these conflicting elements, or “contradictions,” is what drives change.
That’s why Marxists say development isn’t a straight line, but spirals.
Marx’s version is still way too focused on Kegelian dialectics. You can glance that fact by noticing the “dialectical” part of dialectical materialism.
It retains the dialectical aspect and rejects the idealist. Why do you say it is “too” focused on Hegelian Dialectics? Which parts of Dialectics that Marx took from Hegel retain Hegel’s idealist flaws? What ought Marx have continued to leave behind?
That’s Dialectical Materialism in another name. Dialectical Materialism chiefly states that everything is connected and cannot be taken in a vacuum without looking at its past, trajectory, and relations.
I ask again, what specifically is wrong with Marxian Dialectical Materialism? Am I under a mistaken assumption on what you are specifically referring to by saying Systems Theory is “superior?”
Put another way, what does Systems Theory add that is incompatible with Dialectical Materialism?
Put another way, what does Systems Theory add that is incompatible with Dialectical Materialism?
One example: Marx had the notion that mankind lives in a cruel world which needs to be conquered. Dialectical materialism ignores the natural framework we live in. It doesn’t take ecosystems and climate change into account. That’s a reason why Bookchin expanded on it with what he called “dialectical naturalism”.
But marxists rarely if ever read Bookchin, in my experience.
How exactly does Dialectical Materialism ignore the natural framework we live in, when the basis of Dialectical Materialism is that everything is connected and constantly changing? Climate Change and Ecosystems are perfect examples of Dialectical Materialism.
Wait, what’s the end-goal, then? Socialism, or the dissolution of all hierarchies?
Socialism is an economic mode, not necessarily an end-goal. Worker’s ownership of the means of production is a clear, consice, and not ideologically chargeddefinition.
That’s what Lenin invented, without ever really relying on a clear definition of the term. (Marx used “communism” and “socialism” interchangeably) In the end, everything the Bolsheviki did was defined as “socialism”, robbing the term of any proper meaning. Hell, even China claims that it is “socialist”.
I don’t really agree that societal development necessarily happens in these stages, so I don’t really agree with your premise of clearly defined stages between “capitalism” and “communism”. It’s too focused on Hegelian dialectics, while I want to focus more on systems analysis.
I’m not really in the mood to explain a complete hypothetical socialist political system, just because you don’t accept the most common definition of socialism. I can insteand direct you to the anarchist FAQ. There, they broadly address economics, self-defense and other questions you might have.
Marxism rejects Hegelian dialectics, which are Idealist, in favor of Dialectical Materialism. DiaMat does not believe that societal development necessarily happens in clear cut stages, but that each stage of development contians within it both elements of the previous stage, and the next stage. The next “stage” is not necessarily the same! There are numerous paths, but the resolving of these conflicting elements, or “contradictions,” is what drives change.
That’s why Marxists say development isn’t a straight line, but spirals.
Marx’s version is still way too focused on Kegelian dialectics. You can glance that fact by noticing the “dialectical” part of dialectical materialism.
It retains the dialectical aspect and rejects the idealist. Why do you say it is “too” focused on Hegelian Dialectics? Which parts of Dialectics that Marx took from Hegel retain Hegel’s idealist flaws? What ought Marx have continued to leave behind?
Marx didn’t have system theory back then. We have systems theory now. Why use an outdated form of sociological analysis?
That’s Dialectical Materialism in another name. Dialectical Materialism chiefly states that everything is connected and cannot be taken in a vacuum without looking at its past, trajectory, and relations.
I ask again, what specifically is wrong with Marxian Dialectical Materialism? Am I under a mistaken assumption on what you are specifically referring to by saying Systems Theory is “superior?”
Put another way, what does Systems Theory add that is incompatible with Dialectical Materialism?
One example: Marx had the notion that mankind lives in a cruel world which needs to be conquered. Dialectical materialism ignores the natural framework we live in. It doesn’t take ecosystems and climate change into account. That’s a reason why Bookchin expanded on it with what he called “dialectical naturalism”.
But marxists rarely if ever read Bookchin, in my experience.
How exactly does Dialectical Materialism ignore the natural framework we live in, when the basis of Dialectical Materialism is that everything is connected and constantly changing? Climate Change and Ecosystems are perfect examples of Dialectical Materialism.
I fail to see your point.
You’re overgeneralizing dialectical materialism.
Dialectidal implies that there are two opposing forces which contradict each other. That’s a subset of system theory.