I’m glad I don’t live in the EU
bastion of free speech and democracy, everyone.
Oh yes. But to be fair, RT is pure Russian propaganda.
[finding out Jeffrey Epstein’s associates will imprison me for questioning them] this is good for me because I already don’t do that
Are there any big EU propaganda outlets you can think of?
Whataboutism
No, really. Do you think the EU puts out any propaganda at all?
Of course it does
But once again a .ml account can’t stay on topic
All “news” outlets will selectively only focus on certain news. Especially the ones you probably think are “unbiased” such as the BBC.
Even on news outside of Europe such as the genocide in Gaza, many great news clips have an RT logo because RT is one of the few willing to hire freelance journalists in Lebanon and not spout pure Israeli propaganda.
RT has plenty of good reporting on topics which European “news” would never air because it runs counter to their narrative. And I still post plenty of articles from TheGuardian and BBC despite knowing they frequently post propaganda.
Okay, what’s the outlet? Are you able to point to one media organization and say "this organization is an organ of EU propaganda?
Or are you just pretending to hold that opinion because being honest about what you actually think propaganda is (i.e. anything a Designated Enemy government says at all, for any reason, ever) would reveal your position to be exactly what you guys always claim is the communist position: rabid, uncritical in-group loyalty divorced from facts.
lmao
I just realized (at least I think so) that I missinterpreted your original comment
I thought you were a provoking tankie but it might have been a (somewhat) genuine question
If you think I am pro russia just check my comment history :D
However I stand by what I said, thinking that any sufficiently large governing body is not influencing news is just naive.
I don’t think the EU has anything comparable to RT, but that does not mean they are not influencing news and narratives
What’s your issue with communists? Why do you think communists are incapable of being genuine? Either way, BBC is easily an analogue to RT, both spread state-friendly messaging for either side, and both have been caught spreading disinformation (the BBC for example lies about China, Russia, and other western adversaries all the time).
Ye Power Trippin’ Bastards
More like Leopards Ate My Face
this is the price for freedom of speech bro
Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes the truth is amplified unnaturally by foreign intelligence services to divide and destabilise western democracies.
It’s not so much about what’s true, but more about the agenda of the person who is speaking it.
Let us have our own discussion of what matters in our societies, instead of letting our enemy dictate the agenda of our public discourse.
“Our enemy”? Our enemy is the rich pedophiles who have given weapons to nazis, destroyed Ukrainian sovereignty, made opposing Palestinian genocide illegal and are hellbent on cooking the planet to death for oil money. That’s who the enemy is, not other proles who speak a different language than you.
Are you unable to differentiate between Russia the state that is waging an illegal war in Ukraine, and the Russian people?
If the amount of “fuck the orcs”, “shithole country”, and even “glass Russia” shit I’ve seen from The Good Guys™ in the past four years is any indicator, it is not the communists who have this problem.
Most of you are still either denying or justifying the Ukrainian puppet government’s drone swarm attack on that boarding school that killed all those kids a few weeks ago. Most of you still outright deny the ethnic cleansing campaign in the Donbas region that kicked off this war in the first place.
The Russian people support the war. The narrative that the war is exclusively supported by Russian capitalists is wrong, even the CPRF supports the war.
“our enemy”, you sound like a fascist
Do you think that Russia is not the enemy of the EU?
We’re not the EU. I’m just a person, but the people who threaten to kill me if I step out of line tell me to obey the EU, so I have to obey them. What’s good for the EU is not always what’s good for me, or vice versa. If something makes EU nations prosperous, or the EU as an organisation prosperous, then often that’s good for me, and often that prosperity is kept by a few oligarchs. The EU being able to criminalise true information is in no way good for me.
The EU is the oligarchs who own me and you. If they want to make a nicer house and we live in their house, sometimes we get small benefits from their actions. But don’t fool yourself into thinking you own the house.
Russia is not my enemy. The EU is my enemy.
LOL, Russia won’t sanction you, it will poison you or throw you out of a window.
Russia is literally forcing austerity on the entire ukrainian nation.
Putin is the richest russian, billionaire. Guess who gave him all that money?
I don’t disagree with rich vs poor, but whitewashing Russia is just hilarious.
It’s funny that you claim to care about the Skirpals, but you can’t even be bothered to remember the names of supposed victims of “Novichok poisoning”. Maybe I should be thankful for people like you. As long as you’re the main audience, the psyops will never be too complex, & will hammer on the same xenophobic tropes ad infinitum.
The British government fucking poisoned the Skirpals I have a gajillion articles on it written by a dying 90-something CIA agent among other people. He is the coolest one though not the smartest.
Please do share some of those articles, because that exact topic is something I’ve been meaning to start researching for a while now.
Sure will do that before bed leaving this as a reminder
https://johnhelmer.net/category/skripal/
Aaaa double reminder it’s gonna be like 2am soon. I got distracted by everyone I feud with on social media having a meltdown over the Platner thing. In the meantime here read some of these, they get into the military rushing in to do the toxicology & the impossibility of a nerve agent being used to do the job, as well as the reasons the British govt would want to kill them.
The UI is terrible, the man is a “former” CIA agent, & the books are not on Anna’s Archive, overall his geopolitical analysis is crank shit. His breakdown of this case & a few other issues is excellent.
So Russia is no better than the west in the end? It’s imperialism vs imperialism?
Thank you for this.
Russia hasn’t poisoned me or thrown me out of a window. Ukraine is a victim of Western meddling and of its own stupid, self-destructive decisions. I don’t care about Putin, he isn’t taking my money, my own government is. The billionaires and corporations that make my life worse are not in Russia, they are here in Europe and in the US.
Whataboutism as its finest.
Yeah, Russia is EU’s enemy but only because EU, with US and Israeli help, keeps antagonizing Russia all the while criminalizing dissent and enforcing private surveillance panopticon and maintaining support to genocidal and openly fascist entities, eg. Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan. Through Ukraine EU and NATO engage in proxy war with Russia, and EU leaders seem intent on taking us all down with them in open war against Russia. Russia is not my enemy, Russia is the capitalists’ enemy!
Israel I can understand but what did Ukraine and Taiwan do? Not sure if I’m going to regret even asking given where this post is but I’m curious now.
Taiwan is the place where the fascist KMT fled after being beaten by the CPC in the civil war. They remained independent because as the PLA was preparing to liberate the island’s population the Korean War broke out, leading (eventually) to the creation of both ROK (South-Korea) and ROC (Taiwan). The PLA lacked strength to to do both I guess. Which is understandable ater fighting both the Japanese (though the KMT fought them also) and the KMT and remaining independent. On the KMT’s treatment of the local you can take a look at things like the February 28 Incident and the period of suppression by governmental forces known as White Terror and accompanied martial law that lasted from 19 May 1949 to 15 July 1987.
Ukraine seems to be the latest in a long list of regimes that the NATO-countries (with full UN backing usually) have either created or armed to serve their capitalist class’ purposes in proxy wars meant to destabilize regions and topple enemy states. The methods of war may have evolved along the years, but they always achieve this locally by arming and enabling the local fascist and conservative elements, often in armed coup d’état, as was Ukraine’s case in 2014 with what is known as Euromaidan.
My support for Russia is critical, as in I support it in the fight against imperialism but realize the state or its leaders are not socialist. I could support Ukraine if the people kicked out the fucking nazis in charge, but then again they’d need help doing it. I don’t believe that the people of Ukraine need any more war right now, though.
And this is the person calling you an “authoritarian”.
the least brainwashed piefed user has logged on
Why is not Fox News not banned then? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t care about RT it’s a Russian controled media so their bias is clear. I don’t find them to be credible source. Just like Fox “entertainment” news.
Because the European countries like America. They’re just playing good cop to America’s bad cop to fool plebs into thinking they’re the good guys. That’s so obvious it hurts. Get the working class people from Europe to fight against the working class people from America and the rich win!
This seems like a nothing burger. The ban of RT is in place already, the new decision is not relating to whether it stays in place or not:
In the law, operators are forbidden from distributing content from a list of banned media, including RT. The question is not relating to the continuation of that ban, but on the word “operator” in particular; it essentially means that it’s an entity distributing the content from a commercial perspective.
The question is whether gifts & donations to a private (non-commercial) individual turn that private individual into a commercial distributor and thus an operator.
‘Must Article 2f(1) of [Regulation No 883/2014] be interpreted as meaning that operators, within the meaning of that provision, also include natural persons who, through a website operated by them, only generate income in the form of voluntary contributions from third parties (donations or gifts)?’
Cited in Judgement #16, page 6
And it follows in the conclusion:
[The law] must be interpreted as meaning that a natural person who operates a website by broadcasting on it content originating from legal persons, entities or bodies listed in Annex XV to Regulation No 833/2014, as amended, and derives from the operation of that website only income from voluntary contributions from third parties, in the form of donations or gifts, comes within the concept of ‘operator’ within the meaning of that provision
This is the conclusion on the last page of the judgement (is it me or the wording is pretty bad around
The judgement also carefully qualifies why gifts & donations are qualified as income in #15
However, that court observes that the collection of private donations, which constitute gifts under civil law, is capable of being classified as a ‘professional activity’, where it is carried out to such an extent that the beneficiaries receive significant sums enabling them to finance, at least in part, their means of subsistence. In the present case, the appeal for donations appears to be designed to generate financial resources for the continued operation of the traugott-ickeroth website and therefore to constitute a sustainable source of income, which is characteristic of a professional activity
So essentially, the information itself can still be freely shared so long as it’s done without monetary support that can be considered as “income”; they’re not further banning the information itself, simply closing a “loophole”.
I don’t like the original law either (because the media list can be amended to practically include anything and anyone), but this is not changing much, and given the amount of the donations (60k in a year) it’s surprising that they thought that would not be considered commercial exploitation to begin with.
Honestly, if they had cut off donations early or capped them to their server costs, then the prosecution would have no recourse.
The ban of RT is in place already
How authoritarian of them
So essentially, the information itself can still be freely shared so long as it’s done without monetary support that can be qualified as “income”;
Wait till you hear abouty Radio Free Asia
Thank you for this detailed context. On the one hand, that makes perfect sense: Closing a loop hole. On the other hand, it’s chilling how this could be extended to cover other media or, ultimately, other community-driven projects, like open source, which rely on donations to survive.
i’ve been saying it for years.
obviously, nobody likes a violent neighbor, and nobody likes russia invading ukraine. so much should be clear.
but, the fact that the EU just literally doesn’t allow russia to speak or to give any kind of explanatory statement, makes me thing that russia actually has good reason and EU does not want us to see that.
makes me thing that russia actually has good reason and EU does not want us to see that
Are you starting to notice the contradictions? Check this documentary out.
You say that Russia is not allowed to speak in the EU and state it as a fact. However I am living in the EU and still get to hear or read about e.g. what Lawrow has to say.
do you mean, what Tagesschau and other western newspapers report that lawrow says? because i’d rather hear it from themselves personally. otherwise it’s just a game of chinese whispers
The EU would not need to do this if they were winning. This is desperate.
Winning WHAT?
The war in Ukraine? Duh? If Russia was losing, the EU wouldn’t bother censoring RT. They’re just words, and words don’t matter when the actual material realities on the ground erase whatever gains they could possibly make with propaganda.
That’s not how how propaganda works.
We’ve seen often enough that people don’t care about the actual truth once they’ve been influenced enough.
Hahaha hell yeah man it’s so funny when liberals think to tell communists “how propaganda works”
Again, that ban should reasonably cover most MSM in any state.
Ok… Show us the EU army then, where are they? How can such a block raise an army and no one hears about it, this is an amazing feat many would love to know the tricks of.
No EU citizen dies regularly over there (except the few loonies that go over there on their own). It’s all Russians and Ukrainians dying there.
I think that EU judicial décision is only there to mirror the decisions the Russian federation took. About média. Just to stay close to what the most advanced country in freedom (Federation of Russia) does with media sharing.
This guy in the screenshot is an Elon simp. When I was still on the Nazi plaform I had to mute him. I wouldn’t trust anything he posts without doing my own validation.
Quite ironic to read this under a post decrying the sanctioning of information based on the author and not the content of the message.
Saying someone is unreliable source is a pretty massive difference from the state throwing them in jail.
He literally links to the document which you would’ve read before commenting if you actually cared about facts of the situation. What you’re very transparently trying to do here is throw shade so that people don’t bother looking at the facts. It’s quite telling that liberals care far more about who the source is rather than what the facts are. Explains a lot about the current state of western society. https://courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/r-v-staatsanwaltschaft-saarbrcken-cjeu-judgment.pdf
I did a little reading. What I found out is EU Article 2f(1) of Regulation 833/2014 prohibits operators from broadcasting, enabling, facilitating, or otherwise contributing to the broadcast of content from listed entities, including via internet platforms and distribution by any means. RT / Russia Today Germany is listed in Annex XV.
Essentially the court read the law and gave their opinion that reposting content on a site you run counts as a broadcast. You may have an issue with this, I can certainly see why even if I think that no system of mass media is ever going to be healthy for society again, but what I don’t really understand about some of the posting here is that there are many proud authoritarians of the communist variety getting upset about authoritarian laws. You throw the liberal slander at me but 1) I’m not even close to a liberal and 2) you are upset that the EU is banning the media outlet of one of the world most preeminent fascists (Putin)? I’m really very confused by what you think you stand for?
I’m not upset about anything here actually. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of the liberal west. Communists aren’t shy about the need for censorship because we recognize that some ideas are harmful. However, it is western liberals who preach free speech, but then do exactly the same thing as those they deride to be authoritarian whenever their own power structures feel threatened.
The fact that the court considers the source to be a problem rather than the content highlights that European society has turned into a cult where reality no longer matters, only narrative and ideology reign supreme.
That’s fair but if a specific source is a regular source of disinformation then you can understand blanket bans on said source. I do agree with your take on liberal free speech. Same as the free market. It’s only free when it’s benefitting the political in-tribe.
if a specific source is a regular source of disinformation then you can understand blanket bans on said source
So if it can be shown objectively that a given Western source repeatedly spreads disinformation about a given socialist/anti-Western country, you would support a blanket ban from the government of that country using the same logic you’re giving for supporting the EU’s blanket ban, right?
Riiiiight?
Exactly why I said there can be no healthy mass media environment. It’s bullshit from everyone from all angles all the way down.
You didn’t answer the question. Would you support a blanket ban of a news outlet by any government as long as a pattern of disinformation can be objectively shown? Like China or North Korea banning RFA, the news outlet with verifiably bullshit articles about everything socialist Asia that even other Western outlets have debunked? Or is that privilege reserved for “the good guys” in your mind?
You commented this earlier:
what I don’t really understand about some of the posting here is that there are many proud authoritarians of the communist variety getting upset about authoritarian laws
You say you don’t understand I think you already have an answer. Is it accurate for me to say that you think it’s because we support pretty much anything done by a communist government against the West, and oppose anything done by Western liberal government against communist countries? I.e. we’re solely looking at who did something when deciding whether to support it instead of the merits of the thing itself? If so, I’m throwing that accusation right back at you. I think you blindly support pretty much anything Western governments do as long as it’s against one of the West’s enemies and blindly oppose anything communist governments do against the West.
Disinformation hasn’t been the problem with the particular source, it’s the fact that it is providing information that’s contrary to the narrative. The actual disinformation about the war has been coming from western source which keep telling us that Russian economy is about to collapse, that Russian army is pulling out chips from washing machines, that Russia is running out of missiles any day now, that Russia is isolated on the global stage, that Ukraine is doing great, that there are no fascists in Ukraine, and there is definitely no busification happening. The real issue here is that it’s western media that it’s western narrative that’s divergent from reality. And now it’s becoming increasingly difficult to hide the fact that the war is going poorly, and its economic effect on Europe, so the EU is becoming very insecure.
This dualism you are promoting where there is a good side and a bad side, an honest actor and a dishonest actor etc is text book Hollywood propaganda. You’re so trapped in the western overton window you can’t even see it.
I think you might be talking about yourself here, cause nowhere did I say the west is the good guy here, nor have I suggested that there is a good side at all. What I actually said was that western media objectively puts out far more misinformation because the narrative it is promoting is at odds with reality. It’s not that Russian media is more honest, it’s just they don’t need to lie because Russia is winning the war.
Essentially the court read the law and gave their opinion that reposting content on a site you run counts as a broadcast
Not quite, I made a comment here detailing the judgement; TLDR the law bans commercial distribution of RT content, and the court found that large sums of gifts & donations turn private individuals into commercial operators, thus banning them from distributing RT content. You can still operate a website that distributes RT content, so long as there are no monetary incentives to do so.
what I don’t really understand about some of the posting here is that there are many proud authoritarians of the communist variety getting upset about authoritarian laws
This decentralized platform was built by the “authoritarian communists” you decry.
This decentralized platform was built by the “authoritarian communists” you decry.
The philosophy of the platform is anarchistic not communist.
Lemmy was loosely inspired by the federated nature of the soviet union. The main devs are Marxist-Leninists, and developed a federated Reddit alternative based on those principles. Federation existed before Lemmy, but the devs specifically made Lemmy due to their communist principles.
You cannot just take values and proclaim them as belonging to your ideology. That’s ridiculous. I might as well then proclaim that kittens and puppies belong to communism.
It is an objective fact that communists have made great efforts to fight against the existing hegemonic order. Be they individual communists who have created many anti-capitalist communities, or mighty socialist states (USSR and PRC) who challenged the might of the imperialists and allowed many countries to have a chance at independent development.
You cannot simply gloss over it all and say that if a communist does something good that it was actually anarchism all along. That’s patently idealistic.
Friend, this has nothing to do with who you say you are or what labels you give yourself and everything to do with the architecture of the product. You are doing the same thing the post is complaining about, i.e. conflating the source with the truth.
Decentralization is not an “anarchist philosophy”. It is just a tool.
Communists are not upset at any use of authority, but the authority of capitalists against workers. Communists want the working classes to have state authority. The idea that communists just love authority is liberal cope used to distract from the argument that the working classes specifically should have state power.
If communists don’t love authority then why promote a political system centred around it. There are literally thousands of different flavours but you chose this one.
Any ideology that supports the existence of a state at any point is “authoritarian.” What matters most is which class controls that authority. When the working classes control the state, as communists wish to establish (and have), this creates more freedom and quality of life for the working classes. The state is a tool, not an ideal.
Why do we need a state?
To resolve conflicts between the classes, the employers vs the employees
Because the state exists as long as classes exist, and classes will continue to exist until production and distribution is fully collectivized. This requires highly advanced productive forces and the full conquest of political power by the working classes, which is a far way off.
Authority is a tool not a dogma.
Authority is a tool (for sociopaths). Both capitalism and communism end up at the same spot. A bunch of ego maniac sociopaths work their way in to the top positions and then start doing fucked up shit to further consolidate their power. We need a system that prevents that. A system that is dispersed enough that no individual or minority group can have so much power and influence to the point it can dictate the life outcomes for the majority (plural minorities). I’m just fundamentally uninterested in any other system and honestly I think people who continue to promote such a system lack the creativity to think outside the lines already drawn for them.
A bunch of ego maniac sociopaths work their way in to the top positions and then start doing fucked up shit to further consolidate their power
Is that really how organisations work, or is the fucked up shit because organisations have to exist under capitalist regimes where fast growers take over and slow growers vanish into irrelevance, leading to a natural selection?
Is it the case that the very existence of positions causes trouble, or is it the benefits associated with them that lead to greed and competition?
A system that is dispersed enough that no individual or minority group can have so much power and influence to the point it can dictate the life outcomes for the majority
Is this not just a majority Rian direct democracy? I mean I don’t necessarily have a problem with it, but what is the relation to authority or dispersion here? Do you want some sort of absolute direct democracy where technical experts don’t have control over their respective fields? You need to be more clear.
I think people who continue to promote such a system lack the creativity to think outside the lines already drawn for them.
Or maybe it’s because they wish to build off prior experience rather than jump head first into the personal ideals of some guy? I mean why should we structure society in the way you want it? Why not in the way I want it?
Capitalism and socialism end up at wildly different outcomes. Capitalism enriches the capitalist class off the backs of the global working classes, while socialist countries historically have managed to dramatically uplift the working classes. When you make historically false claims like this, equating capitalism and communism, and then blame others who correctly analyze these systems for “not having creativity,” you destroy your own position.
one of the world most preeminent fascists (Putin)?
The propaganda blitz surrounding the Ukraine war puts that of the Iraq war to absolute shame. Look at how fucking deranged people STILL are about this.
Putin is a fascist . It has nothing to do with Ukraine. I thought this 20 years ago too because he is a textbook fascist i.e. there is no separation of private/corporate enterprise and the state, he’s an authoritarian nationalist who installed a single‑party state, he brutally suppresses dissent and is overtly militaristic. He might pine for Soviet times but in reality he is just in it for himself. Another pathetic ego maniac of which we have many all over the world these days.
Workers are the state > workers own the means of production > fascism 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Workers own the state in modern Russia? lol
Good catch. 😂
Russia isn’t a single party state. Stop Just Saying Shit™
Of course… I totally forgot about all the other parties that have been in power since the fall of the USSR. My bad
Is Japan a one- party state?
I wish I could be as free as you and just change what words mean any time you get called out for lying with them
there is no separation of private/corporate enterprise and the state
This is nonsensical. There’s no such thing as an industrialized society with a clear separation between private enterprise and the state. The state is the backbone of any industrial economy and anyone who knows shit about leftism knows that all capitalist countries are bourgeois dictatorships.
he’s an authoritarian nationalist
This description applies to every head of state. There’s no such thing as a “non-authoritarian” nation-state. Furthermore, Russia has substationally stronger minority rights than the west (where the idea of giving minority rights will get you accused of being racist).
he brutally suppresses dissent and is overtly militaristic
Is this your first year paying attention to politics?
You’re not refuting any points I made though. Everything you and I have said is true.
You’re missing the point. Putin is a bourgeois rat (as I like to call him) but supporting Russia is still harm reduction because Russia’s enemies are the imperialists. Literally everyone is better than the imperialists. The imperialists are the bottom of the barrel.
Putin? He’s just a typical liberal* in comparison.
*liberal in the non-prejorative ideological sense
First time?
Oh, this is on lemmy.ml. Should have noticed that first before I went into the comments.
deleted by creator
Why do people like you even bother commenting stuff like this instead of just blocking us?
Genuinely curious.
What do you gain from commenting this? Why is it worth the apparent mental anguish of continuing to see our posts?
I think it’s to remind Lemmy noobs that not all Lemmy is equal and that some servers are seeded by government appointed handlers of fascist regimes.
Like the ones making news illegal lol?
Do you have any evidence of this, or is it just your way of dismissing speech you don’t like?
Good, I am happy to read that no more fascist Russian propaganda will be spread. You should be too. Unless you are a fascist, in which case I am sure you will be upset!
Only wholesome European fascist propaganda for you
You’re cheering for your own demise. How can you be sure that you know the truth about something, if it is illegal share contradicting sources? Have you ever looked at RT, or is your view on it completely formed by its Western competitors? Do you think that Western media do not have their own bias, just like any media controlled by a state or by the capitalist class?
Russian state media lies. Always. That’s how I know. Don’t be stupid.
Fucking medieval peasant mentality
Very intelligent response
The brave soviet soldiers defeated fascism the first time round, and now their descendents will beat it the 2nd time round as well, be the banderites of Ukraine or the zionists or Europe.
Even under the bourgeoise dictatorship of putin, in the life of a single Russian soldier there is more anti-fascism than the the entirety of western liberalism combined.
