- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
After making a post about comparing VPN providers, I received a lot of requested feedback. I’ve implemented most of the ideas I received.
Providers
- AirVPN
- IVPN
- Mozilla VPN
- Mullvad VPN
- NordVPN
- NymVPN
- Private Internet Access (abbreviated PIA)
- Proton VPN
- Surfshark VPN
- Tor (technically not a VPN)
- Windscribe
Notes
- I’m human. I make mistakes. I made multiple mistakes in my last post, and there may be some here. I’ve tried my best.
- Pricing is sometimes weird. For example, a 1 year plan for Private Internet Access is 37.19€ first year and then auto-renews annually at 46.73€. By the way, they misspelled “annually”. AirVPN has a 3 day pricing plan. For the instances when pricing is weird, I did what I felt was best on a case-by-case basis.
- Tor is not a VPN, but there are multiple apps that allow you to use it like a VPN. They’ve released an official Tor VPN app for Android, and there is a verified Flatpak called Carburetor which you can use to use Tor like a VPN on secureblue (Linux). It’s not unreasonable to add this to the list.
- Some projects use different licenses for different platforms. For example, NordVPN has an open source Linux client. However, to call NordVPN open source would be like calling a meat sandwich vegan because the bread is vegan.
- The age of a VPN isn’t a good indicator of how secure it is. There could be a trustworthy VPN that’s been around for 10 years but uses insecure, outdated code, and a new VPN that’s been around for 10 days but uses up-to-date, modern code.
- Some VPNs, like Surfshark VPN, operate in multiple countries. Legality may vary.
- All of the VPNs claim a “no log” policy, but there’s some I trust more than others to actually uphold that.
- Tor is special in the port forwarding category, because it depends on what you’re using port forwarding for. In some cases, Tor doesn’t need port forwarding.
- Tor technically doesn’t have a WireGuard profile, but you could (probably?) create one.
Takeaways
- If you don’t mind the speed cost, Tor is a really good option to protect your IP address.
- If you’re on a budget, NymVPN, Private Internet Access, and Surfshark VPN are generally the cheapest. If you’re paying month-by-month, Mullvad VPN still can’t be beat.
- If you want VPNs that go out of their way to collect as little information as possible, IVPN, Mullvad VPN, and NymVPN don’t require any personal information to use. And Tor, of course.
ODS file: https://files.catbox.moe/cly0o6.ods
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small warning: the Tor VPN app is dependent on Google Play.
It is not. I’ve been able to use it on GrapheneOS without Google Play Services.
Huh. Why did it complaining about lack of google play when i try it?
I’m not sure. Are you certain you have the right app?
I downloaded it from google play via Aurora Store, bc i cannot find the actual source.
ok, it works now. thx
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The right app is org.torproject.torbrowser. You can also get it from the official site: https://www.torproject.org/download/#android
Tor VPN is different from Tor Browser.
TIL, I had no idea there were separate services.
Its available through FDroid
Mullvad has port forwarding
They removed port forwarding. Only reason I don’t use them as my main vpn.
Proton and Mullvad VPN appear to win the battle of the charts for privacy & security.
Except Mullvad has been proven a trustworthy service, while Proton have already a couple alarming things in their record.
What alarming things?
From what I know, the only free VPN worth using is Proton because they don’t keep logs on their free tier either.
Why isn’t F-Droid included in the Availability section?
Could be wrong but I think it’s due to the security vulnerabilities present, its generally better to just use Google play store with an anonymous account.
Na… The likelyhood of installing some bad or fake app from google play store is much higher than on fdroid.
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The issue there AFAIK is that some app builds aren’t fully reproducible, because if they were the developer signature would still apply and be used. In the reproducible case the security of the build infra wouldn’t matter, because the same app would be produced the same regardless were they are build.
Without reproducible builds, you cannot really trust the software anyway, because the Dev could hook some hidden code only for the released binary app and sign that.
deleted by creator
Once it passes inspection, the F-Droid build service compiles and packages the app to make it ready for distribution. The package is then signed either with F-Droid’s cryptographic key, or, if the build is reproducible, enables distribution using the original developer’s private key. In this way, users can trust that any app distributed through F-Droid is the one that was built from the specified source code and has not been tampered with.
https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html
C tor/little-t-tor/etc. is licensed under the “3-clause BSD” license
Tor technically doesn’t have a WireGuard profile, but you could (probably?) create one
I dont know a lot about wireguard, but of the cuff answer would be no.
It’s odd that it says it’s licensed under
Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 4.0 Internationalbut the actual license file is a different license.Tor is distributed under the “3-clause BSD” license
The reason gitlab says it is, is because the LICENSE file contains all licenses for the codebase, including stuff like geoip which is destributed under CC BY-SA 4.0
This file contains the license for Tor,
It also lists the licenses for other components used by Tor.
Ah, that explains it. Thank you! I apologize for the mistake.
Yeah you can’t, tor is a completely different protocol and the only way to use tor with a wireguard client is with a server in the middle that routes the internal wireguard traffic into tor.
The ‘availability’ is misleading. If they offer OpenVPN or Wireguard then there are available pretty much anywhere.
Last time I said it was hard to figure out if this was some kind of malice or just someone without much experience/knowledge.
I been thinking about what this post and the one before it actually are though. They’re not disinformation, I don’t think they’re misinformation although I think that argument could be made if there was actual intent (and a person could also make the argument that there is intent).
This just kind of seems like white noise or what would be called slop if it were generated by ai.
It’s not useful in making a decision.
A vpn is a tool and you use the right tool for the job. A chart comparing the various similarities and differences between a box and open end wrench, flare nut wrench, socket set, power drill, impact driver and torque wrench would be useless for decision making about what tool to buy because they’re for different jobs.
If you need to take the lug nuts off a truck the right tool is an impact, if you need to replace brake lines you’re gonna use a flare nut wrench.
It’s not useful to compare pia and mullvad. If all you need is a cheap way to reliably bypass geofencing then pia is the right tool. If you need deniability and trust then mullvad is the right tool.
It makes no sense to compare air and nord. If you need the cheapest per device service for bypassing content blocks then the tool is nord. If you need port forwarding for torrents, soulseek and usenet all at once then the tool is air.
The problem with posts like this is that they don’t really provide any useful understanding or decision making process and wouldn’t be useful from an educational perspective like the comparison between various wrenches made above (if it were in some kind of Tools for Dummies publication) because they’re not even contextualized as such.
A better start for this kind of post would be “here are some reasons to use a vpn service” or “here are some actual important differences between different vpn services apps”, not weather they’re available on Jim’s cut rate Secure I Promise ™ alternative android App Store.
Last time I said it was hard to figure out if this was some kind of malice or just someone without much experience/knowledge.
Totally disagree with the first few paragraphs. Someone makes a post you feel has inadequate depth and you think they’re the goddamned CIA? I don’t see any basis for the hostile tone.
If you need port forwarding for torrents, soulseek and usenet all at once then the tool is air.
But like it’s nice to be able to have a reference to quickly exclude certain options without having to wade through all their various websites. If you already know that you need port forwarding, then a chart like this will help you exclude several mainstream options. If there is some other criteria you already know about it could save you a lot of time.
A better start for this kind of post would be “here are some reasons to use a vpn service” or “here are some actual important differences between different vpn services apps”
Those do exist elsewhere and I don’t think there is much wrong with summarizing the current state of things for an informed audience. We are on lemmy here! I wouldn’t mail this chart out to the whole neighbourhood or anything, it’s probably not a good very first intro for most people. Although even for a person just getting started, having the column of criteria on the left could be useful to point out “what are the things to consider”. Like maybe you wouldn’t even guess that the number of devices would be limited.
Long narrative comparisons can be hard to follow. They are good for understanding the differences but then once you are having an understanding how do you pick? It’s very convenient if someone else goes to the trouble to sift through the information. On wikipedia there are some subjects that have tables comparing things and I find them very helpful. Otherwise I’d just have to spend hours making my own tables.
BTW wikipedia has a table comparing different kinds of wrenches so obviously someone thought it would be useful!!
The main issue is that the information could become out of date or erroneous in the first place so you need to verify for yourself whatever is key to your decisions. That’s just the nature of third party info.
So like I said, I don’t think the post is malicious.
I tried to be careful not to take a hostile tone. It’s possible you’re correctly identifying a critical tone, because my comment was intended as criticism of the post.
There are ways of presenting factual information that are not helpful or useful and actually serve the opposite purpose. You certainly don’t need to use prose to present information in a useful way, but consider how much closer to the old car paint color versus mileage chart (or whatever example they used to teach you about uncorrelated data in school) the posters chart is than the Wikipedia wrench table you linked.
The Wikipedia wrench table is in the context of “tools for dummies” that I said might be appropriate for that type of presentation, just as an aside.
The whole point of using some kind of chart or table is to make understanding easier, not more difficult. The posted chart does the latter. I think its because the op doesn’t understand both what they’re trying to say or the information they’re trying to show to convey it and because they chose a really excessively dimensional way to do so. A flowchart, infographic or anything other than a three dimensional chart would be better but since it’s so unclear what they’re trying to express, except possibly how much they love nymvpn and how people should really take a look at that previously underrepresented option, I can’t really make a recommendation.
OK well then I should divulge to you full disclosure that I think you, like OP, are also probably not a hostile actor who is commenting to fuck with me specifically or ?lemmy users? in general. More likely someone who’s got a bit spun up their head. But I can’t say for sure…
As it happens, last time I was looking at different VPN vendors I had to spend a ton of time basically creating an abbreviated version of this chart that had the items most salient to my use case. To sift through the websites, forums, support sections etc, because the information isn’t clearly presented was annoying. They are all trying to emphasize their strengths to make a sale based on their marketing strategy.
I can say that this chart, exactly as it is, would have saved me significant time had it been available. I found similar but they were old. And I looked at it to see if the conclusion I came to is still the right one for me— it is. I can clearly see the required information.
Good! You’re on a public forum and people do that shit! Our instance is slightly better than the other Reddit offshoots but most of them haven’t kicked the social media curse and everything you read on lemmy needs to get the sidest of ways glances.
I have trouble taking your statement that you can see the required information seriously when the required information literally isn’t there. Important stuff like weather a service accepts cash anonymously, is owned by what company and what that company’s affiliations are (talking about kape and israel here, not the proton red herring) and how forwarded ports are allocated are not included in the chart.
Of course, that kind of information doesn’t fit neatly into a table so it’s another example of the format of the data being inadequate.
I can believe that a broad generalized table like this is useful in the context of learning the ropes of what’s out there in terms of vpn services, but it isn’t being presented in that way. If this kind of table were around years ago when I was getting my feet under me I would have made bad choices based on it.
My comments saying “hey, this is bad and not something to use” are not coming from my seat of power at the player haters annual dinner and awards ceremony but from clear recognition of misleading information based on experience.
I can vouch for cryptostorm. Offers port forwarding and good speed. Haven’t been with them long but they seem legit.
I’d love to see them audited.
Back when they were in the US, they closed shop and moved to Iceland to avoid turning over data for a subpoena.
That’s both admirable and an admission that they had longs to turn over.
But that they generate accounts on the fly like the best? Is promising in context.
ProtonVPN: only 8 years old: RED FLAG!
Well reddish flag at least, is there a rationale behind this? I mean 8 years is quite a long time.
I think it’s just a relative color scale from a spreadsheet… with the older being the greenest, the youngest the reddest, and the rest just fall in between. ProtonVPN just happens to be in between, it’s not as red as the others but also not as green as the ones that have been around for much longer.
So you also think the choices were not that good?
I mean what you are saying is that if there had been a 50 year old one, all the others should be red?
I’m just explaining the reason why it’s more reddish (but not as red as others). It’s something most spreadsheet software (this was clearly MS Excel) can do automatically with numbers for visual indication so we can more easily see the distribution, it does not mean 8 years old is bad.
If there’s a big unbalance in color it would just make it more visible that there’s a big unbalance in ages. Probably if that had happened more colors could have been added to the gradient, maybe maroon->red->yellow->green->blue->white. But I think it was not seen as necessary in this case (or the author was lazy, since these are one of the defaults I believe).
(this was clearly MS Excel)
LibreOffice Calc, actually. You are correct about the color grading.
(or the author was lazy, since these are one of the defaults I believe)
I changed the conditional colors from the default to match the colors that LibreOffice uses for “Good”, “Neutral”, and “Bad”.
Who cares about why it happened? I mean it’s kind of obvious. No one questioned why excel shows a specific colour, but I did why the person making the spreadsheet did in fact use what you go to lengths to explaine, in a specific way. It’s like saying sorry your paycheck was halved because we have this software and today it divided your salary in half. Not saying that’s not ok or anything, but explaining how “dividing by 2 halves a number”.
I feel you explain something, while correct, had nothing to do with what I said.
Mullvad also ran some pretty quirky ads on our public transit. I hadn’t been that familiar with them, but it did heighten my awareness, and they seem pretty fine.
Also of note, some providers have data caps. I haven’t looked at all providers, merely Nymvpn as I was interested. Turns out they have a 2TB/month cap. Might not be an issue for some, but might be for others.
Tor isn’t a VPN. It’s a proxy.
This is a really great resource thank you!
PIA isnt independent, its by a Israeli spyware company, that owns multiple VPN Review sites and VPN services . Remove it from the list.
No, don’t rrmove it from the list. Make a note acknowledging the issue so others see it
I read from somewhere that mullvad is owned by two israeli guys. Dont remember the names, but I was told, that it’s written on a frontpage or smth.
Whoa for real??
Yes. The owner/developer is Kape technologies, an Israeli spyware/adware company.
For maximum privacy, I recommend VPN providers with a jurisdiction outside of Five Eyes and other international intelligence-sharing agreements – that is, one headquartered outside of the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. So it initially seems like a positive sign that, while CyberGhost has offices in Germany, it’s headquartered in Romania. German entrepreneur Robert Knapp says he founded the $114,000 startup on the back of low-wage Bucharest labor before flipping it for $10.5 million in 2017.
The issue is who he sold it to – the notorious creator of some pernicious data-huffing ad-ware, Crossrider. The UK-based company was cofounded by an ex-Israeli surveillance agent and a billionaire previously convicted of insider trading who was later named in the Panama Papers. It produced software which previously allowed third-party developers to hijack users’ browsers via malware injection, redirect traffic to advertisers and slurp up private data.
Crossrider was so successful it ultimately drew the gaze of Google and UC Berkeley, which identified the company in a damning 2015 study. (You can read the Web Archive version of that document.)
This practice, commonly called traffic manipulation, is condemned web-wide. And the only difference between it and one of the oldest forms of cyberattack, called man-in-the-middle (MitM), is that you clicked “agree” on the terms and conditions.
Whether or not PIA or ExpressVPN or the other providers owned by Kape fulfill this data scraping and ad-serving pipeline in my mind is irrelevant. Choosing to do business with them rewards bad actors when there are other VPN sellers who don’t have such a tainted lineage.
