Hate to say it, but I’d argue that this particular leftist sub-group can be ever worse than Christians. At least on paper, Christians are supposed to want to convert sinners and non-believers, and are supposed to work to do outreach to help people explicitly undeserving. The Christian enemy of the devil is effectively an abstract. Yes, there’s the anti-lgbt+ bigots, but in my experience they are a minority despite their incessant loudness and overwhelming presence in the public eye.
This particular revolution worshipping sub-group of leftists though? They appear to overwhelmingly just want death and suffering for their “enemies”. They have no plans to attempt to convert people and many are actively against even trying.
I can’t tell you how much heat I’ve taken for suggesting that (at best) ignoring all the fuckers that voted for Trump and not trying to find any way to build relationships so you can turn them is a losing strategy.
It makes me sick that so very many people see violent and complete revolution where somehow they never have to deal with opposition voices ever again afterwards (read: purges and re-education camps, ideas I’ve seen positive unironic support for from this group a shocking amount) as a more viable and desiriable outcome than trying to understand and care for their misguided neighbors and family so they can turn them.
Just because your plan isn’t technically genocide due to it falling on lines of political ideology doesn’t make it less completely fucked in the head and reprehensible.
If your wishes for the future include “We have to be baddies so we can completely erase the worse baddies from existence and make our utopia” then I strongly suggest you need to reevaluate just about fucking everything in your life and ideals.
I can’t tell you how much heat I’ve taken for suggesting that (at best) ignoring all the fuckers that voted for Trump and not trying to find any way to build relationships so you can turn them is a losing strategy.
Look I hate tankies, accelerationists, and purity testing among progressives, but generally speaking the great rural swaths of MAGA chuds are as much of a waste of time as tankies are. They’re either completely deluded or sociopathically self-interested. There isn’t any moral standing to demanding I go out and have a beer with my racist MAGA neighbor. Nor would that even be a tolerable course of action for me, he could literally die in a fire I’d feel nothing.
So… do you find extermination of these people is a more tolerable course of action than getting to know them?
This is a core point I’m trying to make here, and strive to make fairly often elsewhere. The “rural swathes of MAGA chuds” (keep drinking the 1%s rural vs urban division of the middle and lower classes why don’t you) are a large enough group/voting bloc that they cannot simply be ignored.
It doesn’t have to be you, but someone has to do something about this group. And I’m not coyly endorsing mass murder or sterilization here. I’m also not sitting on my ass telling others to do work I’m not doing myself.
You can resign yourself to try and just outlive them. You could just keep trying to outvote them every time, forever. Sad, but tolerable and entirely understandable, attitude.
You can come up with a large number of other ways that effectively amount to “remove their ability to vote”, most of which would be violations of human rights or elimination of human life. These are the attitudes I find reprehensible, and shockingly fucking common.
Or we could all start making concentrated efforts to start treating people with god awful views as people where some amount of them might be able to be changed. Not as subhuman mosters (the term “chud” is pretty disgusting when you get down to it), as unredeemable fools, as non-entities (wouldn’t care if they dropped dead), or at best as roadbumps to be driven over on the path towards the future.
The fact that so many people look around at their neighbors and see so many of them as just useless wastes of space is one of the most effective ways that those in power maintain that power. Keeping those lower than them squabbling among each other so they can’t effectively organize against the people on top.
I’m not going to argue for some full overthrow of the concept of capitalism, but there is clearly a hell of a lot wrong. A lot of rot up at the top. Willingly and intentionally saying “but those people are so backwards that I could never work with them” is just a disgustingly elitist concept.
Go and punch the actual nazis. Call out “nazi bar” situations. People who literally want you and yours dead? Fire at will.
But those are levels of hatred that are far rarer than people pretend they are. Most people just want to get on with their day, and a lot of people against certain groups fold very quickly when someone they love turns out say, homosexual. That’s not hypocrisy. It’s an opportunity to help someone reflect on their biases. We all have them, stop putting yourself up on such a pedestal.
I’ve rambled enough, but I’ll throw this in as a bonus:
The “rural flyover states” have been done so fucking bad by the federal government, by their local politicians, and by corporations for so fucking long that I can’t help but see punching down every time someone starts in on the bullshit about “those stupid people out in rural areas”. They deal with a lot of similar issues to poor urban areas, and the attitude of the entire fucking world in calling impovershed areas “the global south” should give us all pause, especially when these areas of the US are in no way limited to the former confederate states.
I was born in one of those states. My wife is from one of those counties in a larger state. We’re both happy as hell to be out, but seeing what goes on there on a regular basis is terrible.
People talk about tent cities and rising amounts of homeless in major cities. No one talks about the towns that have had every industry pull out over the last 50 years and the homeless and drug abuse problems in them that are only exacerbated by there being literally no homeless shelters or clinics for 30 miles with almost entirely barren highway in between the few pockets of dying towns.
That’s why they narrowed it to evangelical Christians. There is still your argument that they will try to convert you first, but boy if you don’t, it’s the same hate. I’d say the leftist hate is at least honest and doesn’t try to camouflage it with “love the sinner” lies and cherrypicking from a guide book.
Leftists cherry pick from holy scripture aka. theory ad nauseam to build arguments to support any inhumane action.
The Christian „love the sinner“, „love your enemies“ is different. There you only need to profess your faith to be accepted in the community. Then afterwards the reeducation/indoctrination/conversion happens over time.
With tankies you go to gulag/reeducation/indoctrination first, and if you survive that you can maybe become a comrade. You will never join the party though. You remain irredeemable and a suspect counterrevolutionary.
You mean, the paper that was inked to “allow” divorce & execution of a certain Anglo king’s wives, or the “original” low-effort patchwork plagiarism of any/all folklore the ruling class could scrape together? Either way, that’s some ironclad foundational document, there. 😝🤌🏼
This is just wrong from top to bottom. Revolutionary theory has always posited that revolution can only come from the large majority, even if we use methods like vanguard parties if the working class at large isn’t behind it then it will fail. Every successful revolution has had working class education, organization, and agitation as its basis.
Revolution doesn’t mean genocide. Historically, revolution has been less bloody than the systems that upheld pre-revolutionary society. Mark Twain has an excellent quote on this:
THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
Hate to say it, but I’d argue that this particular leftist sub-group can be ever worse than Christians. At least on paper, Christians are supposed to want to convert sinners and non-believers, and are supposed to work to do outreach to help people explicitly undeserving. The Christian enemy of the devil is effectively an abstract. Yes, there’s the anti-lgbt+ bigots, but in my experience they are a minority despite their incessant loudness and overwhelming presence in the public eye.
This particular revolution worshipping sub-group of leftists though? They appear to overwhelmingly just want death and suffering for their “enemies”. They have no plans to attempt to convert people and many are actively against even trying.
I can’t tell you how much heat I’ve taken for suggesting that (at best) ignoring all the fuckers that voted for Trump and not trying to find any way to build relationships so you can turn them is a losing strategy.
It makes me sick that so very many people see violent and complete revolution where somehow they never have to deal with opposition voices ever again afterwards (read: purges and re-education camps, ideas I’ve seen positive unironic support for from this group a shocking amount) as a more viable and desiriable outcome than trying to understand and care for their misguided neighbors and family so they can turn them.
Just because your plan isn’t technically genocide due to it falling on lines of political ideology doesn’t make it less completely fucked in the head and reprehensible.
If your wishes for the future include “We have to be baddies so we can completely erase the worse baddies from existence and make our utopia” then I strongly suggest you need to reevaluate just about fucking everything in your life and ideals.
Look I hate tankies, accelerationists, and purity testing among progressives, but generally speaking the great rural swaths of MAGA chuds are as much of a waste of time as tankies are. They’re either completely deluded or sociopathically self-interested. There isn’t any moral standing to demanding I go out and have a beer with my racist MAGA neighbor. Nor would that even be a tolerable course of action for me, he could literally die in a fire I’d feel nothing.
So… do you find extermination of these people is a more tolerable course of action than getting to know them?
This is a core point I’m trying to make here, and strive to make fairly often elsewhere. The “rural swathes of MAGA chuds” (keep drinking the 1%s rural vs urban division of the middle and lower classes why don’t you) are a large enough group/voting bloc that they cannot simply be ignored.
It doesn’t have to be you, but someone has to do something about this group. And I’m not coyly endorsing mass murder or sterilization here. I’m also not sitting on my ass telling others to do work I’m not doing myself.
You can resign yourself to try and just outlive them. You could just keep trying to outvote them every time, forever. Sad, but tolerable and entirely understandable, attitude.
You can come up with a large number of other ways that effectively amount to “remove their ability to vote”, most of which would be violations of human rights or elimination of human life. These are the attitudes I find reprehensible, and shockingly fucking common.
Or we could all start making concentrated efforts to start treating people with god awful views as people where some amount of them might be able to be changed. Not as subhuman mosters (the term “chud” is pretty disgusting when you get down to it), as unredeemable fools, as non-entities (wouldn’t care if they dropped dead), or at best as roadbumps to be driven over on the path towards the future.
The fact that so many people look around at their neighbors and see so many of them as just useless wastes of space is one of the most effective ways that those in power maintain that power. Keeping those lower than them squabbling among each other so they can’t effectively organize against the people on top.
I’m not going to argue for some full overthrow of the concept of capitalism, but there is clearly a hell of a lot wrong. A lot of rot up at the top. Willingly and intentionally saying “but those people are so backwards that I could never work with them” is just a disgustingly elitist concept.
Go and punch the actual nazis. Call out “nazi bar” situations. People who literally want you and yours dead? Fire at will.
But those are levels of hatred that are far rarer than people pretend they are. Most people just want to get on with their day, and a lot of people against certain groups fold very quickly when someone they love turns out say, homosexual. That’s not hypocrisy. It’s an opportunity to help someone reflect on their biases. We all have them, stop putting yourself up on such a pedestal.
I’ve rambled enough, but I’ll throw this in as a bonus:
The “rural flyover states” have been done so fucking bad by the federal government, by their local politicians, and by corporations for so fucking long that I can’t help but see punching down every time someone starts in on the bullshit about “those stupid people out in rural areas”. They deal with a lot of similar issues to poor urban areas, and the attitude of the entire fucking world in calling impovershed areas “the global south” should give us all pause, especially when these areas of the US are in no way limited to the former confederate states.
I was born in one of those states. My wife is from one of those counties in a larger state. We’re both happy as hell to be out, but seeing what goes on there on a regular basis is terrible.
People talk about tent cities and rising amounts of homeless in major cities. No one talks about the towns that have had every industry pull out over the last 50 years and the homeless and drug abuse problems in them that are only exacerbated by there being literally no homeless shelters or clinics for 30 miles with almost entirely barren highway in between the few pockets of dying towns.
That’s why they narrowed it to evangelical Christians. There is still your argument that they will try to convert you first, but boy if you don’t, it’s the same hate. I’d say the leftist hate is at least honest and doesn’t try to camouflage it with “love the sinner” lies and cherrypicking from a guide book.
Leftists cherry pick from holy scripture aka. theory ad nauseam to build arguments to support any inhumane action.
The Christian „love the sinner“, „love your enemies“ is different. There you only need to profess your faith to be accepted in the community. Then afterwards the reeducation/indoctrination/conversion happens over time.
With tankies you go to gulag/reeducation/indoctrination first, and if you survive that you can maybe become a comrade. You will never join the party though. You remain irredeemable and a suspect counterrevolutionary.
You mean, the paper that was inked to “allow” divorce & execution of a certain Anglo king’s wives, or the “original” low-effort patchwork plagiarism of any/all folklore the ruling class could scrape together? Either way, that’s some ironclad foundational document, there. 😝🤌🏼
This is just wrong from top to bottom. Revolutionary theory has always posited that revolution can only come from the large majority, even if we use methods like vanguard parties if the working class at large isn’t behind it then it will fail. Every successful revolution has had working class education, organization, and agitation as its basis.
Revolution doesn’t mean genocide. Historically, revolution has been less bloody than the systems that upheld pre-revolutionary society. Mark Twain has an excellent quote on this:
Overall, I think you’d do well by actually listening to us. I wrote an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, feel free to give it a look!