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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by nongunktional:
when i first heard about the male loneliness epidemic i was like oh yeah close camaraderie and bonding between men is often discouraged in favor of competition or, if not discouraged, at least filtered through a lens of individualism that precludes deep connections. and then i learned what people meant by it (men arent getting laid) to which i say skill issue
to all the men out there not getting laid: try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence
Ok, ok, ok. I know everyone likes anecdotes.
I don’t fall in the lonely camp, but I’m definitely not getting laid.
Why am I not getting laid?
Well I used to think it was cause I was fat, but then I lost a ton of weight. Then I thought it was cause I wasn’t fit so I put on muscle. Then I thought it was cause I was vampire pale so I got sunburned.
Reality is:
- I annoy myself in my own head. I’m definitely going to annoy a potential sex partner.
- I am literally scared of everything. Fear does not encourage one to partake in mating rituals.
- I have priorities like a job and a son that are more important than a new woman in my life will be for a while.
- Having a big dick doesn’t give you big dick energy.
Sorry to hear that but congrats on your dick at least bro.
Male loneliness is about camaraderie. If it was about getting laid, then prostitution would solve it. Busting a nut isn’t gonna fix a psychological problem facing the adult male population in modern western society and this shitty tumblr post isn’t gonna either. Its down right perpetuating it. Now, some truth is there; COMPANIONSHIP (not not getting laid) is a wonderful thing and does help, but the root of the problem is societal.
In so many words, this is just another “you’re lonely because you’re a bad person” misandrist jerk.
The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed, people being unable to find sexual companionship because people of their desired sex don’t want to be around them due to their personal choices is something that can be made fun of.
Many women want a guy who is pro choice, can cook, is able to hold a conversation that’s not about sex, is capable of having platonic female friends, has hobbies, and has decent hygiene.
If that is not something you can attain, that’s fine and there are still women out there for you but that eliminates a large percentage so if you want to be picky on top of that you are going to have a problem
Pro choice, sympathetic to womens issues, good cook, able to converse about many topics, platonic female friends, hobbies, good hygiene, >6ft tall, healthy weight, reasonably attractive, good degree and then job.
That is/was me and I’m happily married, but it took 7 years of putting a lot of effort into dating before I met her, and I was not picky about who I dated.
The idea that men can easily find a partner by meeting a few basic requirements is divisive tribalist nonsense.
It’s not that they can easily find a partner if they meet a few requirements it’s that lacking those requirements makes dating much harder and if you are struggling to get a girlfriend and when trying to think of reasons why it’s been hard and all you think to do is blame society instead of focusing on self improvement that’s a problem
Anecdotal evidence counts for shit but I’ll give it anyway of my friends/coworkers who complain “I can never find a good woman” about 3/4 have no hobbies where they ever interact with women and the last 1/4 fit the “I can’t have a normal conversation with a woman without trying to sleep with her”
Society itself does suck and it has made in person hobbies much less common with the death of the third space, isolating people through technology, and just how much it cost to live but I have never met a person who is even moderately social that has a hobby where they interact with people of the opposite sex, and has platonic female friends that couldn’t get a date in less than a year if they were actively searching.
Introverts need love too but if they look at their list of problems and rank “society hates men” above “I never see women in a social setting” that alone is their biggest problem
The problem with “just get hobbies to meet women” is it’s glaringly obvious when people are there to do that. You can’t force yourself to enjoy an activity; you’ll naturally do what you want, which is approach women.
I have never met a person who is even moderately social that has a hobby where they interact with people of the opposite sex, and has platonic female friends…
Kind of a pointless truism. Dating is a numbers game, more encounters is more success. You even admit it could take this prospect up to a year of effort, now imagine that you have to build that opportunity network from scratch.
It is a pointless truism, and it is a numbers game which is why it’s so shocking people don’t see that!
So if one persons spends 1 hour a week with eligible women and the other person spends 10 hours a week with eligible women the second person is statistically much more likely to find a partner.
And if you spend only 1 hour a week with eligible women and instead of increasing that time you just decide to blame society that’s a you problem
There is also a difference between pretending to be interested in something to get laid and trying to find ways to do things you find interesting with other people
The time and energy investment to get those hours is not linear. Going from 0 hours to 1 hour is (by definition) a massive change. You’re describing the solution as if there’s an accessible way to make meaningful connections in the digital era. If it were as simple as described, we wouldn’t have this societal problem because humans really don’t like being lonely.
…a difference between pretending to be interested in something to get laid and trying to find ways to do things you find interesting with other people
What’s the difference? Your advice never said the hobby needs to interest you. This whole conversation is about finding companionship and intimacy, not group hobbies.
Also, all of this argument puts aside that diving into new group activities is time and resource intensive. Having the time, flexibility and money to switch between them just to meet a few new people is an incredible privilege. It also inherently assumes you have access to these groups. Guess if you live in a social desert or don’t have reliable transportation you’re SOL and a loser for life?
You mention this as being because of the digital era but what about that is any different than 25 years ago? If you don’t have time to spend a few hours a week pursing a hobby how are you going to have time to be in a relationship? The cost of pursing hobbies is a real concern for lower income people but how has that changed? How were you supposed to date a person if you lived in a social desert with no reliable transportation before?
Maybe I haven’t been clear with what I am saying because you are grossly misunderstanding my point.
I am saying when you have a problem you should try and improve yourself to address the problem vs blame society. For example if you can’t figure out how to program in python: you could read about it, watch educational videos, or take a course. Going onto a message board and complaining that python is impossible and stating we are in a programmer epidemic while not trying to learn it first is bad. We can make the acknowledgement that python can be hard for some people to learn but calling it impossible to learn without having put in the effort is useless
Nobody here is arguing that Trump supporters or stinky men who only care about women for sex deserve to have partners.
It’s just that you and the OP don’t acknowledge that finding a partner is hard for a lot of men who aren’t jerks and have a reasonable amount going for them and the implication is that it’s own fault and they must be a dick.
If you flip the genders and make a statement like: “if a woman can’t find a decent man it must be their own fault. It’s easy, just go and take up some male dominated hobbies and take a shower.” Its an asshole thing to say, no?
So how about we try not to be assholes and have some empathy.
I have acknowledged it multiple times
I’ve looked and I don’t really see that you have. You seem pretty dismissive of the fact that this group actually exists and quick to jump to attacking maga cultists and gross men who disrespect women - who nobody here is sticking up for.
Did you look two comments up when I said
“ The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed”
Many women want a guy who is pro choice, can cook, is able to hold a conversation that’s not about sex, is capable of having platonic female friends, has hobbies, and has decent hygiene.
As someone who is literally all of these, it’s still a nightmare to find a romantic partner. Personallt, I’ve given up on going out of my way to find someone, because every time I put myself out there I either get ignored or ghosted
Alright, anedotical evidence time! I am aware I am in a bit of a bubble, as I try to avoid the local variant of maga as much as possible in my life.
But I know several single male friends who I would say are at least of average attractiveness, smart, funny, know how to use a shower and a toothbrush, have decent education/money, cool hobbies and are politically progressive. Also I know of at least three of them who are deeply unhappy about not getting into a meaningful relationship.
Sometimes people are just stuck in a life situation or a place with not many compatible options and ways to meet people.
How do you define “cool hobbies”
Skinning hookers in their basements, plotting the violent takeover of the government, woodworking, climbing, just the usual boy stuff, you know?
Jokes aside, “things that a large percentage of the population looks at and says, hey, that is a cool hobby”. How is that for a definition?
Woodworking is a fun thing to do and a great conversation starter but also commonly done at home or at a shared work area that is all male
Rock climbing and plotting the violent takeover of the government has worked well for me however
The idea that men are struggling to find friends is a real concern that should be addressed, people being unable to find sexual companionship because people of their desired sex don’t want to be around them due to their personal choices is something that can be made fun of.
But conflating those two categories of men as if all lonely men are the latter, does no good to anyone, and only helps fuel misandric stereotypes.
The conflation is the problem but in my experience it is more people who are blaming the former when it is clearly the latter
Like if you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice and also complain you can’t find a nice women to settle down that is a skill issue
if you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice and also complain you can’t find a nice women to settle down
That’s an absurd stereotype that obviously doesn’t apply to the vast majority of lonely men, though.
Maybe the skill issue is in not realizing that.
P.S. Also, there are plenty of married couples who are both MAGA, and I myself had no shortage of single MAGA women popping up on dating apps when I was single who made it crystal clear they weren’t interested in anyone who wasn’t also MAGA, also anti-vax, etc.
P.P.S. ‘Your body my choice’ was a meme for like three weeks.
So tell me this then: When people hear that a man hasn’t dated, why is the first thing that comes to your mind the assumption that “you walk around with a maga hat and tell women your body my choice”? Is that the only explanation? Is there no nuance in the world? If a man has never dated, is he automatically MAGA and anti-abortion?
It’s not the first thought, however when a person blames society for all their problems instead of making an effort to improve themselves that screams maga
Plenty of people struggle to date for a variety of reasons but the people out there calling not get laid the “male loneliness epidemic” are generally not the most normal people
What about all the MAGA who got women? What did they do right?
If it’s misandrist to tell the Trump voters who modeled their personalities on empty victory declaration and hurting brown people, then I’m a proud misandrist. Men who suck don’t deserve to get laid. No one deserves sex.
the Trump voters who modeled their personalities on empty victory declaration and hurting brown people
???
Are you assuming lonely men all fit the above description?
I think a lot of lonely men do fit that description; studies show that political division is affecting dating. It’s not that complicated.
You’re very much part of the problem. Reddit would be a much better fit for you.
Stereotyping and generalizing is uncomplicated by nature, yes. That’s the whole point, after all—to prejudge so that you can ‘spare’ your mind the effort of considering individual situations and circumstances.
Mass individual situations are contemplated through generalizations. I’m not interested in every snowflake.
You tell them.
Is it possible to have a discussion without some queball trying to make it about Trump?
a discussion about masculinity in the present political era with toxic online personalities and toxic politics and you’re upset that Trump gets mentioned? That’s a ‘you’ problem.
We are on @lemmy.world, it is allowed to not be American.
.world ass take
Frankly my positioning on men and feminism is also received negatively on lemmy world. Everyone’s all about extending compassion and sympathy to men as subjects in an attempt to control them. Someone suggested we ‘redefine strength.’ To me strength cannot be redefined: you can only accept that many men are lonely because of their own choices and do, in fact, need to man up.
It isn’t easy, you know? It’s whether you get it or you don’t. Being fit and reliable is hard to some people.
Drag’s partner deserves sex. Lots of it. Until it can’t think straight.
Haven’t seen you in awhile Drag, wonderful to run into you. First time on my new instance! (Had to switch form Lemm.ee)
Thank you for perfectly demonstrating one aspect of the peoblem you claim to understand. Assuming all lonely men are conservative is not only wrong but fucking stupid and extremely judgemental. Thank you for proving that you do not understand this problem what so ever, so now you can be safely ignored for the rest of this conversation.
Not all lonely men are Trump supporters
All Trump supporters who are lonely have some work to do and don’t really deserve sympathy.
Indeed, but my heart is going out to the ones who aren’t Trump supporters
You… do realize there are lonely men in other countries, right? Like, the US is not the only place on Earth? Ah yes, the infamous Trump voters from checks notes … Norway, Egypt, Japan, etc.
And if you’re gonna say “Well they’re not voting for Trump but some other Trump-like politician”, don’t bother. You can’t generalize every man, half the world population, just because you know men who voted Trump/Trump equivalents. Because if that’d be how it works, I could just as easily find you a woman that voted Trump and then point out how, supposedly, women suck cause they vote Trump based on this “evidence”.
Why do you believe that lonely men must suck? Like, do you think men who would be decent partners just immediately find success and leave the dating pool, never to vent their frustration with modern dating culture?
Studies show that political division is affecting dating.
The political environment involves a lot of broken weak men who learned broken weak masculinity and that’s affecting dating.
It’s not that bad.
TIL: Male Loneliness Epidemic isn’t Loneliness, is Laidlessness
Edit: MLE = Incel???
How does it spread if they are isolated?
I don’t think it’s just about sex. I’m not even sure incels think that. I think it’s more about relationships and someone to share your life with. I know some people seem fine with just friends and casual sex, but I think a lot of people have a need, or strong “want,” for a close, deep, intimate relationship. I know I do at least. Even if it was just about sex, sex is pretty much a human need.
Personally, I have severe life-long social anxiety (and depression), so it’s always been very hard for me to make friends or meet potential partners. I have worked on my anxiety issue (medication, attempts at self help, though I could never afford therapy), and I am better than before (I used to sometimes get panic attacks just being around large groups of people), but it’s still severe enough to hinder me in life in general (and noticeable to people around me).
OK, but…no? That’s not what people are talking about with the male loneliness epidemic. They’re talking about how an inability to connect with their peers on a more than superficial level, coupled with a lack of older male role models, are causing Gen Z and Millennial men to report extremely high levels of loneliness.
It’s tangentially related to, “getting laid,” as many of these men are driven towards misogynistic monosphere influencers who make sexual conquest a measure of self-worth, but that’s a symptom of the problem, not the totality of it. Also, some people debate the existence of the loneliness epidemic altogether, but no one defines it as, “men aren’t getting laid.”
This is a pretty stupid take. Just stupid. Not much to add to this.
Much of my energy is spent trying to be an enjoyable presence and it god damn works as people seek my presence. Does this lead to sex? No, why would it?
Being an enjoyable presence in order to get sex makes absolutely no sense.
Wait, it’s about not getting laid and not a lack of bonding and friendship? Oh yeah absolutely a skill issue. Try treating women like humans and show empathy. It works pretty darn well.
I’m trying really hard to not reduce the issue to “women won’t have sex with me” but the responses are flooded with this general sentiment.
I think some guys suffer from mental illness and don’t have support from the people around them and things like male privilege can diminish their perceived suffering. Even so, I rarely see men actually talk about it.
Like, only on places like 4chan people are brave enough to spew whatever shit’s on their mind and I’ll tell you that while they can be the minority in a lot of regards, there is something sincere in their unfiltered, crude language that really helps me understand it a little. A lot of it does feel like whinning about sexlessness, but sometimes they make a point and actually talk about their suffering.
It seems like men are desperate for sex and, in pursuit, find grifters who peddle them conservatism. These are the type of people that come to my mind when we talk about it.
Funny. I always thought it was a camaraderie thing because I’m married. That definitely makes a lot of sense though because young men are becoming more right-wing and most women do not like that so it seems like that would be a big hurdle and maybe they just need to figure their shit out.
Male loneliness is real and multifactorial, but yeah its also self fulfilling. Rather than examine difficult societal reasons and address them, we fall back on tired masculine tropes and try to blame women for not being accomodating or whatever.
I’ve never felt more lonely in my life as when I was in a relationship.
I got the opposite problem. I’m tall and fairly well built, so I have plenty of luck on the apps. But since I moved states, I can’t be fucked to find a friend. Literally just tried to arrange a “play date” and got cancelled on the moment I was about to knock on their door.
Maybe I’m just not likeable?
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