China is as communist as the vatican is good for kids
But sure let us be blinded by propaganda and ignore that the trains in china are held together by ducktape, rails are unsafe and got build with slave labor :)
China is a Socialist country run by a Communist party, which is why the overwhelming majority of major Communist orgs recognize it as such. The economy is dominated by the public sector, which controls the large majority of key industries and large firms. They aren’t fully developed post-scarcity Communist yet, but they are developing through Socialism.
Further, Chinese infrastructure is good. The rails are safe and the trains aren’t held together with duct tape, and they aren’t made with slave labor. This is just chauvanism.
They are not socialist in the slightest. That requires the workers to own the means of production, which they do not.
Edit: To expand on this companies are organized the same way as in capitalism because they are capitalist. Workers at the bottom, management in the middle, and rich capitalists at the top.
The overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, so yes, the workers do own the means of production for the majority of the economy. Further, managers are workers too, not owners. I think you have a very specific view of Socialism that’s exclusionary towards Marxism, for Marxists cooperatives aren’t truly “Socialist” as they are petite bourgeois cells that retain private property and exclusive ownership within, when the goal of Marxist Communisn is the eventual abolition of Private Property, which can only be accomplished by folding all property into the hands of all, through public ownership.
The workers have no meaningful power or ownership over their workplaces, so it doesn’t matter how much is publicly owned. I personally will never accept the marxist redefinition of socialism, nor will I ever accept an authoritarian vanguard state.
I do not want to continue this debate, tankie. It’s never productive for anyone.
You don’t have to respond, but if you’re going to disengage after making a bunch of claims and insulting me, I think it’s only fair that I respond for others that read this thread.
Workers in China do have meaningful power over their workplaces, and the majority of the economy is publicly owned. There are worker councils in workplaces, the agricultural sector is largely cooperative based, and even many firms like Huawei are cooperatives.
Secondly, Marxists did not “redefine Socialism.” Marxism is a part of the broader Socialist tradition, trying to redefine Socialism so as to exclude Marxism is odd, considering it has had by far the largest impact on Socialism historically and in modern times.
Finally, all states are authoritarian, in that all are used by one class to oppress others. It is best that the class in power is the Proletariat and it uses that state power to oppress the bourgeoisie, as is happening in China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc.
Again, you don’t have to respond, but if you’re going to disengage after insulting me and making a number of claims, I’m allowed to address them as well. Have a good one.
Don’t think u have travelled to china. Their rail system is fantastic. All out train in US looks like came from steel mill from Philadelphia. Boxy trash and slow af
Dont need to travel to see that chinese people live in poverty, anything can be done when you are a dictatorship, its corrupt and everything is a scam. Fake meat, fake tofu, tofu drag constructions, 4 billion on a road and all the village got was a gravel path. Where a state teaches kids to hate other nations and disrespect everything for something that happened 80 years ago instead of making sure this does not ever happen again. Where its a national sport to go abroad and harass others. Where the state doesnt care about your stolen things, but if you speak out publicly against it, you will be warned with a kind “take that down, or else”.
If their electric cars are anything to go by, i dont even want to step on their most modern trains even if they give me trillions of GBP.
If the regime is supposed to be an example of progress, well guess then we all should go back to european monarchy and imperialism. Europe thrived in the 19th century afterall. Just look at all those rich people living luxurious lifes. All the advancements in science, medicine, transportation, literatur, architectur, social policies, unification of people split appart and more.
If i were to travel to china they would arrest me on the airport for critisising china and not seeing the CCP as legitimite and supporting taiwan, that being if i would even be allowed to enter the country.
The USA train system is shit, yes, thats not even on debate. Against that even the russian train system is amazing.
Also china didnt build its high speed trains on their own. They used EU and japanese tech.
Japan has the best train system in the entire world, and that without being a supressive, all survaling dictatorship.
OP here is comparing shit, scooped from the toilet, to a microwave meal, that got a mediocer plate up. Ofc then in comparison the microwave meal will look better.
Where a state teaches kids to hate other nations and disrespect everything for something that happened 80 years ago instead of making sure this does not ever happen again. Where its a national sport to go abroad and harass others. Where the state doesnt care about your stolen things, but if you speak out publicly against it, you will be warned with a kind “take that down, or else”.
I am talking about west taiwan. The US is not teaching its kids to tread and smutter the flags of japan, korea and britain and france. It Doesnt have a whole celebration on their liberation day, where kids charge a fort and “kill the pig bastard invadors”, get taught how to throw granades and be loyal to their party and great leader (atleast not yet). US people that go abroad dont carve racist slurs into religiouse structures, shoot at birds with a sling shot, eat at a restaurant then dump in all the napkins and sauces on the table into the bowl so they are wasted and where the police atleast has to make an effort (yes bad police workers exist but not an entire states deparment) and dont threaten you with prison/disapearing if you dont take down your critique and outcry against them.
Some US tourists are bad, i dont disagree, but there is a difference between not having manners and deliberately doing damage and disrespect, and just stupidity from an too inward centered society.
nd ignore that the trains in china are held together by ducktape, rails are unsafe and got build with slave labor :)
?? I don’t love china but ignoring the enormous amount of investment they’ve made is silly. that’s what it is, investment. The amount of roads and rail in the last 20 years should give anyone pause, instead of discounting it.
The rails are good, but a bit rushed planning wise. Haven’t been to China, but the biggest complaints I’ve heard are more “they stuck a station in a super inconvenient spot so they could show progress on the project”
The trains and track seem to have been well built though.
China is as communist as the vatican is good for kids
But sure let us be blinded by propaganda and ignore that the trains in china are held together by ducktape, rails are unsafe and got build with slave labor :)
China is a Socialist country run by a Communist party, which is why the overwhelming majority of major Communist orgs recognize it as such. The economy is dominated by the public sector, which controls the large majority of key industries and large firms. They aren’t fully developed post-scarcity Communist yet, but they are developing through Socialism.
Further, Chinese infrastructure is good. The rails are safe and the trains aren’t held together with duct tape, and they aren’t made with slave labor. This is just chauvanism.
They are not socialist in the slightest. That requires the workers to own the means of production, which they do not.
Edit: To expand on this companies are organized the same way as in capitalism because they are capitalist. Workers at the bottom, management in the middle, and rich capitalists at the top.
The overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, so yes, the workers do own the means of production for the majority of the economy. Further, managers are workers too, not owners. I think you have a very specific view of Socialism that’s exclusionary towards Marxism, for Marxists cooperatives aren’t truly “Socialist” as they are petite bourgeois cells that retain private property and exclusive ownership within, when the goal of Marxist Communisn is the eventual abolition of Private Property, which can only be accomplished by folding all property into the hands of all, through public ownership.
The workers have no meaningful power or ownership over their workplaces, so it doesn’t matter how much is publicly owned. I personally will never accept the marxist redefinition of socialism, nor will I ever accept an authoritarian vanguard state.
I do not want to continue this debate, tankie. It’s never productive for anyone.
You don’t have to respond, but if you’re going to disengage after making a bunch of claims and insulting me, I think it’s only fair that I respond for others that read this thread.
Workers in China do have meaningful power over their workplaces, and the majority of the economy is publicly owned. There are worker councils in workplaces, the agricultural sector is largely cooperative based, and even many firms like Huawei are cooperatives.
Secondly, Marxists did not “redefine Socialism.” Marxism is a part of the broader Socialist tradition, trying to redefine Socialism so as to exclude Marxism is odd, considering it has had by far the largest impact on Socialism historically and in modern times.
Finally, all states are authoritarian, in that all are used by one class to oppress others. It is best that the class in power is the Proletariat and it uses that state power to oppress the bourgeoisie, as is happening in China, Cuba, Vietnam, etc.
Again, you don’t have to respond, but if you’re going to disengage after insulting me and making a number of claims, I’m allowed to address them as well. Have a good one.
Speaking of being blinded by propaganda…
Would be Propaganda if it wasnt send videos posted chinese citicens on chinese platforms
What?
Don’t think u have travelled to china. Their rail system is fantastic. All out train in US looks like came from steel mill from Philadelphia. Boxy trash and slow af
Dont need to travel to see that chinese people live in poverty, anything can be done when you are a dictatorship, its corrupt and everything is a scam. Fake meat, fake tofu, tofu drag constructions, 4 billion on a road and all the village got was a gravel path. Where a state teaches kids to hate other nations and disrespect everything for something that happened 80 years ago instead of making sure this does not ever happen again. Where its a national sport to go abroad and harass others. Where the state doesnt care about your stolen things, but if you speak out publicly against it, you will be warned with a kind “take that down, or else”.
If their electric cars are anything to go by, i dont even want to step on their most modern trains even if they give me trillions of GBP.
If the regime is supposed to be an example of progress, well guess then we all should go back to european monarchy and imperialism. Europe thrived in the 19th century afterall. Just look at all those rich people living luxurious lifes. All the advancements in science, medicine, transportation, literatur, architectur, social policies, unification of people split appart and more.
If i were to travel to china they would arrest me on the airport for critisising china and not seeing the CCP as legitimite and supporting taiwan, that being if i would even be allowed to enter the country.
The USA train system is shit, yes, thats not even on debate. Against that even the russian train system is amazing.
Also china didnt build its high speed trains on their own. They used EU and japanese tech.
Japan has the best train system in the entire world, and that without being a supressive, all survaling dictatorship. OP here is comparing shit, scooped from the toilet, to a microwave meal, that got a mediocer plate up. Ofc then in comparison the microwave meal will look better.
Are you talking about the US or china here?
I am talking about west taiwan. The US is not teaching its kids to tread and smutter the flags of japan, korea and britain and france. It Doesnt have a whole celebration on their liberation day, where kids charge a fort and “kill the pig bastard invadors”, get taught how to throw granades and be loyal to their party and great leader (atleast not yet). US people that go abroad dont carve racist slurs into religiouse structures, shoot at birds with a sling shot, eat at a restaurant then dump in all the napkins and sauces on the table into the bowl so they are wasted and where the police atleast has to make an effort (yes bad police workers exist but not an entire states deparment) and dont threaten you with prison/disapearing if you dont take down your critique and outcry against them.
Some US tourists are bad, i dont disagree, but there is a difference between not having manners and deliberately doing damage and disrespect, and just stupidity from an too inward centered society.
?? I don’t love china but ignoring the enormous amount of investment they’ve made is silly. that’s what it is, investment. The amount of roads and rail in the last 20 years should give anyone pause, instead of discounting it.
The rails are good, but a bit rushed planning wise. Haven’t been to China, but the biggest complaints I’ve heard are more “they stuck a station in a super inconvenient spot so they could show progress on the project”
The trains and track seem to have been well built though.