“western diet” okay say what it actually is, they act like we dont also eat vegetables, the implication is they went full carnivore or mcdonalds type shit
Look at the nutrition information for any food you buy, if the ingredient isn’t something you could make at home… Then it’s a western diet type of food and heavily processed
If you scroll down it at least gives you the vibe of what the “Western Diet” is:
A high-fat, low-fibre Western-style diet (WD) induces microbiome dysbiosis characterized by reduced taxonomic diversity and metabolic breadth, which in turn increases risk for a wide array of metabolic, immune and systemic pathologies.
So, the Western Diet could still be plant-based, if all the only definition is “high-fat, low-fibre”
In developed countries such as the UK and the USA, UPF represents more than 60% of the calories consumed in children’s and adolescents’ diets. In some Latin American countries such as Chile and Mexico, it is more than one-third of the total calories consumed by children 1–19 years old
If one is poor, doesn’t have garden space or time for gardening, because they are working multiple jobs to keep the rent paid, lives in a food desert area all of the fast food options become more likely. And yes, with education one could learn to sprout lentils, connect directly with farmers to cut costs by buying bulk/direct, etc. Many towns have organizations that work for food security, but not everyone benefits from these.
Oreos are plant based, they have roughly 0% fibre.
Hellman’s plant based mayo has roughly 0% fibre.
Most Energy Drinks have 0% fibre.
A full Diaya plant-based pizza has 32-40% of your daily fibre.
“Plant based” doesn’t actually mean that you eat foods that resemble plants, it just means that you don’t eat foods that contain animal products.
You can still eat like a 10-year-old who’s also a pothead.
Yeah but that is just because the plant matter has been extracted and the sugars or whatever is left is being used as ingredients.
I’m trying to make the point that extracting ingredients from plants to make food doesn’t make those foods plant based because the plant has been removed.
No, juicing filters out the insoluble plant bits (a major source of fibre) leaving all the water- and fat-soluble chemicals.
For example, the colour of the juice comes mainly from fat soluble beta-carotenes for the yellows and anthocyanins for the reds and blues. Just as the colours are left in the juice, so are the flavour molecules. Also thousands of other chemicals: proteins, enzymes, sugars, starches, water and even medically active things like caffeine (eg in tea) etc etc.
Just to add: there are water soluble indigestible chemicals too - these are collectively called soluble fibre.
“Fiber” as a dietary term refers to plant material that humans can’t digest. Some (edible parts of) plants have more of it than others; for instance, lentils contain about eight times as much fiber per unit of weight as potatoes do. “Plants contain fiber” is about as accurate a statement as “plants contain vitamins”; not all of them contain it in equal measure.
It’s not that hard to construct a diet that is rich in plants but low in fiber, especially if you include plant-based foods like tofu, which can contain even less of it.
I’ve heard the term Punk Vegan, living on white bread, peanut butter and jelly. Problem for many is that those foods which are less healthy are also less expensive. Which leads to people with lower income eating less well, and getting sick as a result. Being poor, in many ways, is more expensive.
One slice of white bread has about 0.5g of fiber. And you are suggesting eating a loaf of white bread a day. Omni Calculator (https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/fiber) suggests for a male who is 5.5 ft, 130 pounds, 30 y.o. should get 29g of fiber - roughly 58 slices. So about 2 loaves of white bread per day would get one in the range for fiber. You are only off by 1/2. Keep trying. You’ll get there.
There are white breads with more than a gram of fiber per slice and 26 slices per loaf and people that need 25grams or less per day.
But that doesn’t matter because according to these definitions of processed vs ultra-processed, you’re describing ultra-processed foods not plant based.
Wouldn’t that be a processed grains based diet instead of a plant based diet since it is only including processed grains and excludes all other forms of plants?
Adding ketchup on the bread and drinking fruit juices sweetened with high fructose corn syrup will increase the number of plant sources in such a diet without increasing dietary fiber. My point is, it’s not plant variety that matters, but how heavily processed the plants are.
Idk how popular fruit juices are anymore, everyone buys the “healthier” versions, like growing up id say you’re accurate, just ketchup on bread is not a dish of any kind lol
“western diet” okay say what it actually is, they act like we dont also eat vegetables, the implication is they went full carnivore or mcdonalds type shit
Western diet in a nut shell
Look at the nutrition information for any food you buy, if the ingredient isn’t something you could make at home… Then it’s a western diet type of food and heavily processed
Example Nature’s Choice Granola Bars: https://www.naturevalley.com/products/oats-n-honey-crunchy-granola-bars
I’ve bolded the parts that are heavily processed and making this a western diet food
Not related to this paper, but if they had looked at a carnivore diet in humans they would have found a great microbiome…
Yeah that granola is like, sugar/-protein, sugar, fat, sugar, sugar, salt, sugar…
If you scroll down it at least gives you the vibe of what the “Western Diet” is:
A high-fat, low-fibre Western-style diet (WD) induces microbiome dysbiosis characterized by reduced taxonomic diversity and metabolic breadth, which in turn increases risk for a wide array of metabolic, immune and systemic pathologies.
So, the Western Diet could still be plant-based, if all the only definition is “high-fat, low-fibre”
and low diversity. A key point is that more variety of plants provides a wider range of nutrients to the bacteria.
And most of those nutrients by volume or mass is water soluble fibers, a.k.a. prebiotics.
Im assuming they think the western diet is 24/7 fastfood, like checkers/rallys none of the healthier options
Current research show children in the UK and US on average consume 60% of their calories from UPF. So, to your point: Yes, and it’s backed with stats.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11346253/
If one is poor, doesn’t have garden space or time for gardening, because they are working multiple jobs to keep the rent paid, lives in a food desert area all of the fast food options become more likely. And yes, with education one could learn to sprout lentils, connect directly with farmers to cut costs by buying bulk/direct, etc. Many towns have organizations that work for food security, but not everyone benefits from these.
Fiber = plant fiber
How can you have a plant based diet that is low in plant fiber?
Oreos are plant based, they have roughly 0% fibre.
Hellman’s plant based mayo has roughly 0% fibre.
Most Energy Drinks have 0% fibre.
A full Diaya plant-based pizza has 32-40% of your daily fibre.
“Plant based” doesn’t actually mean that you eat foods that resemble plants, it just means that you don’t eat foods that contain animal products.
You can still eat like a 10-year-old who’s also a pothead.
Yeah but that is just because the plant matter has been extracted and the sugars or whatever is left is being used as ingredients.
I’m trying to make the point that extracting ingredients from plants to make food doesn’t make those foods plant based because the plant has been removed.
The ship has sailed on plant based being derived from plants.
You might find better success using whole food plant based diet to describe it
I’m using the definition of plant based diet. You seem to be referring to something you saw on an advertisement maybe?
Great, now you just need to get every single human to read that paper and agree never to use plant-based diet like they have been using commonly
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/plant-based
The literally people would literally like to have a word with you.
If eg the plants are juiced
So removing the plant matter and leaving the sugar/water.
No, juicing filters out the insoluble plant bits (a major source of fibre) leaving all the water- and fat-soluble chemicals.
For example, the colour of the juice comes mainly from fat soluble beta-carotenes for the yellows and anthocyanins for the reds and blues. Just as the colours are left in the juice, so are the flavour molecules. Also thousands of other chemicals: proteins, enzymes, sugars, starches, water and even medically active things like caffeine (eg in tea) etc etc.
Just to add: there are water soluble indigestible chemicals too - these are collectively called soluble fibre.
If a plant is processed more than harvesting, cutting, packaging it no longer meets the definition of plant based.
According to these definitions of processed vs ultra-processed, you’re describing ultra-processed foods not plant based.
“Fiber” as a dietary term refers to plant material that humans can’t digest. Some (edible parts of) plants have more of it than others; for instance, lentils contain about eight times as much fiber per unit of weight as potatoes do. “Plants contain fiber” is about as accurate a statement as “plants contain vitamins”; not all of them contain it in equal measure.
It’s not that hard to construct a diet that is rich in plants but low in fiber, especially if you include plant-based foods like tofu, which can contain even less of it.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/whats-the-difference-between-soluble-and-insoluble-fiber
Processed grains are still plant based, so eat lots of white bread.
I’ve heard the term Punk Vegan, living on white bread, peanut butter and jelly. Problem for many is that those foods which are less healthy are also less expensive. Which leads to people with lower income eating less well, and getting sick as a result. Being poor, in many ways, is more expensive.
One loaf of white bread has about the daily requirement for fiber.
It’s just less than whole grain bread. So not low fiber.
Hmm, let’s see…
One slice of white bread has about 0.5g of fiber. And you are suggesting eating a loaf of white bread a day. Omni Calculator (https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/fiber) suggests for a male who is 5.5 ft, 130 pounds, 30 y.o. should get 29g of fiber - roughly 58 slices. So about 2 loaves of white bread per day would get one in the range for fiber. You are only off by 1/2. Keep trying. You’ll get there.
There are white breads with more than a gram of fiber per slice and 26 slices per loaf and people that need 25grams or less per day.
But that doesn’t matter because according to these definitions of processed vs ultra-processed, you’re describing ultra-processed foods not plant based.
Wouldn’t that be a processed grains based diet instead of a plant based diet since it is only including processed grains and excludes all other forms of plants?
Why not both?
It seems disingenuous to claim a diet that excludes all plants except for lowest fiber foods is plant based or low fiber.
Especially since you can still get your daily fiber needs from white bread which contradicts the claim.
Adding ketchup on the bread and drinking fruit juices sweetened with high fructose corn syrup will increase the number of plant sources in such a diet without increasing dietary fiber. My point is, it’s not plant variety that matters, but how heavily processed the plants are.
Idk how popular fruit juices are anymore, everyone buys the “healthier” versions, like growing up id say you’re accurate, just ketchup on bread is not a dish of any kind lol
Ketchup, bread and fruit juice all have fiber. So they do in fact increase the dietary fiber.
Whether or not your diet is “low fiber” is decided by how much of these things you eat. If you eat a low quantity your diet will be low in fiber.
I wonder what the “Western Style” diet consists of then, since it so low in fiber.
Animal products would be my guess since they don’t contain any fiber at all.
Hey it’s fine, it sounds like your mind is already made up. You shouldn’t worry too much about what random strangers say on the internet either way.
This is exactly why it’s critical to read the real papers and not news opinion pieces of the paper