As posted about recently in [email protected] and [email protected] it seems that @[email protected]’s stance on transphobia has not changed and his apology only seems to be that he was sorry he got caught and that someone leaked the DM. This is concerning for an admin of Lemmy.ml and the leader of the project. I don’t think this means we should stop using Lemmy, it’s open-source and even if they embed donation links, they can be stripped out in our fork. But it does make me wonder if we should consider defederating lemmy.ml on that merit. Since if they hold such views on trans issues, it’s very likely they won’t have any desire to act on that type of transphobia being expressed on their instance.
I know that Lemmy.ml has and does handle overt transphobia well, but I can’t speak to their ability to handle less overt or thinly veiled transphobia, and this incident doesn’t inspire much confidence either.
Edit: Since some people haven’t seen the original. I decided to include it here. Warning, it contains transphobia, if you don’t want to see that, don’t open the spoiler.
CW: Transphobic talking points
I’d really like to hear Feedback from Blahaj’s local community on this, I’m not as interested in outside opinions here so please try to refrain from top-level commenting if you aren’t from lemmy.blahaj.zone (I will ignore them if you comment anyway from a remote instance).
lemmy devs being bigoted it’s more likely than it think
i really wish there was a valid lemmy alternative software or wish postmill implemented atproto or ap :(
It’s the first time I see the transphobic original message, and honestly I’m not surprised to see it within ML community. In general, they and the ideology is already rather cultish given their beliefs and the shunning of “wrongthink”, but there’s a smaller subsection of ML’s who genuinely believe in this kind of reactionary chauvinism that’s a complete bastardization of Marxism.
There’s probably no one on this specific community who goes “hmm maybe there’s some merit to that statement”, but in case there is:
Trans people exist, and much like proletarians, their experience is shaped by our society and material conditions. They suffer through medical gatekeeping, discrimination and state violence among other things, all of them stemming from structures of capitalist domination, and just because occasionally some bourgeoisie opportunistically exploit these issues to garner support/profit from rainbow capitalism and the like, doesn’t mean you should go full reactionary.
I keep hearing people say that beehaw is filled with reactionaries, does that hold any merit?
First time I’m hearing of that but no, it’s mostly liberal progressive types here.
Liberals, sure.
Progressives?
You can get away with all kind of reactionary nonsense as long as you’re polite about your bigotry and run around JAQing off.
Lemmy.ml doesn’t tolerate transphobia regardless of nutomic’s views and probably has a bigger trans userbase than even blahaj. Stop stirring drama.
How about you butt out of server discussions unless you’re a user of that server?
I agree, it’s one thing to ask a question, it’s another thing to make assertions like this. The latter of which is very inappropriate and disrespectful since this is a local discussion on Blahaj policies.
There’s plenty of other things the other admins and mods do that is worthy of consideration of defederation
^ pretty much sums up my thoughts on .ML
There’s certainly nice folks and great communities over there, but the bad faith arguments, “russia/china can do no wrong” propaganda (i had to block Yogthos to have literally anything show up in my All feed, JFC the spam posting), and outright hostile moderation, it just isn’t worth engaging with.
I never really liked his ideas, trans-related or not, but why the hell was he saying all of that just for a (presumably) message about a Firefox plugin???
This looks like a fight trying to be picked, not something to defederate over.
Admin Ping for @[email protected] to weigh in on this issue with her thoughts and opinions on the matter.
Nutomic was banned from this instance approximately 9 months ago when I first become aware of his stance. However, it’s not something I plan on defederating over unless it becomes clear that the instance as a whole is not acting on transphobic content or unless it becomes clear that the community strongly believes that we should defederate.
Yeah that’s why I decided to make the thread sooner rather than later. I wanted to get the community’s opinions on it and see what they think. I do think there is the risk of Nutomic and others refusing to action transphobic rhetoric similar to his own if it seems “respectful” and “logical”.
If that starts happening, we will defederate. But he doesn’t seem to be standing in the way of the rest of the instance staff from dealing with it as far as I can tell.
Personally, I don’t think his shitty views necessarily translate into .ml moderation policy and action, which to me would be the problem that defederation is meant to solve.
That said, I wouldn’t mind defed-ing from them in general, as most of my unpleasant interactions in the fediverse have been with .ml users.
Ultimately, I’ll back Ada on what she thinks and decides. She’s very level headed and strict with other instances as far as blahaj zones mission statement is concerned, and I trust her completely.
Yeah I’m really starting to regret making my Lemmy account with this server. At the time it was just the biggest one and I didn’t know anything about the type of communities they hosted. I tend to stay out of politics, I’m just here for the funny memes man
That’s like me and .world
There’s some dedicated Lemmy migration software, which copies your old subscriptions and probably other settings to your new account. At least, I remember using when I switched from .world to .dbzer0 quite some time ago. So you don’t have to hesitate from looking for a different instance to register on.
You can export your settings and communities in settings, and import them on another server.
deleted by creator
We should defederate from lemmy.ml
I think defeating almost any instance is dumb, not my instance though so do what you will.
Defederate, and I would have said the same if you asked me yesterday.
he regularly bans people for calling .ml users out on their denial of the Uyghur genocide. he was just one stone throw away from also denying the trans genocide.
this is why authoritarians should never get the benefit of the doubt, they’ll never stick with just one dangerous belief.
You can block it, but defederating doesn’t seems like a good idea for me.
I’m very aligned with lgbtq ideas (even if i would like better that the notion of gender itself stopped existing, so that people would stop discriminating themselves for dumb reason and be more diverse, but that’s another subject)
But i think defederating from instances you don’t like (except the Very Bad instances) would just make the fediverse more and more torn apart.
One of the coolest things of the fediverse is that you can navigate across instances, ideologies, without the need of using multiple accounts, it’s fe-diverse! If it is to stop that, then lets just go back to forums, it would be easier.
Plus instance wars have always been a dumb thing. (personal opinion and instance which will get me roasted lol)
defederating from instances you don’t like
And that’s where you lost me since I made this post highlighting a problem with management of the server expressing harmful transphobic sentiment and now you are trying to make it out like these are petty personal opinions.
We’ve defederated from servers which allow or don’t care about transphobia already, feddit.uk is an existing example. The fact that you are dismissing the problem like this shows you don’t understand why we have such hostility towards transphobic sentiment or just don’t care.
yea let’s defederate.
somthin somthin terf-tankie-whatevr… somthin along those lines… i dun evn kno whad those words mean
- TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (transphobia)
- Tankie = Apologists for outright oppressive, murderous regimes like Putin’s Russia and North Korea
Other reasons here as well to consider defederation
Yep, bad views don’t just stop at one particular thing. Flagship instances often go this way sadly, and thus should be defederated from unless they significantly improve.
Isn’t lemmy already?
