They are literally undermining human rights, including the rights of LGBTQ people. You do know that Russia is one of the harshest places for LGBTQ people. It’s literally illegal to display pride symbols in any way. Also Russia started the war in Ukraine, they literally attacked and decided to occupy a sovern country. China is probably one of the most censorship heavy countries on earth and has suppressed acts of violence like the Tienanmen Square Massacre. How can anyone support countries like this WTF?
Same way people with “good faith” can support Trump — bad brain.
Those people aren’t acting in good faith no matter how much they say it.
I think it is a thing of “the lesser evil”, A “seemingly” lesser evil. Those who are critical of the US and the West, like my father, tend to overlook the evils of rival powers, the same goes the other way around.
The thing is, the alternative, seeing all great powers for what they are: equally deplorable evils (as I do), is fucking depressing. It makes you think there’s no hope because the world is at the mercy of the biggest pieces of shit ever, a war between Monsters and Demons.
Why do you put Russia and China together in the first place? There is nothing in common. Do you think the USSR is still there and communists support the government? We only have critical support for Russia in its counter imperialism. There may be an end to it soon though, I don’t know
There’s nothing redeemable about Russia’s oligarchic regime. People who do support it are either excited about doing right wing bigotry, or providing peasant-brained support for the idea of having feudal lords that will supposedly protect them.
As much as I hate the authoritarian regime in China, at least they have achieved meaningful outcomes for many of their people and seem to be investing in a long-term plan to continue that momentum.
As others have expressed on this thread, it’s important to apply your righteous sense of justice to the US as well. When you do, you will start to realize that we’ve been an unspeakably damaging force for both the wellbeing of our own people, and people globally. As an American, I can tell you that it’s quite a shock to wake up from decades of programming and realize the scale of violence my own country has perpetuated.
How can someone support them in good faith? I’ll focus on China, but here are some reasons:
For starters, I don’t believe that it’s possible to impose on a society from the outside to accept LGBTQ people. For example, making LGBTQ acceptance as a precondition on having good relations with China has literally 0% chance of improving life of LGBTQ people there. It’s more likely to backfire. On the other hand, having good relations, and allowing cultural exchange to happen naturally, can - and I think, over the last few decades before relations soured, has - improved LGBTQ acceptance there.
Also, amongst superpowers, China has a relatively good track record when in comes to using military force. They have had conflicts with neighboring countries, but it’s nothing compared to the wars the US or Russia (and USSR) have fought.
Finally (this one I don’t share, but I think it can be held in good faith), someone might not care about human rights all that much. For example, if you consider government-sponsored murders to be just the same as any other - not better, but also not worse - then even if you include Tienanmen Square and other murders by the government, the murder rate in China is still lower than most of the world.
Donno man, China seems a lot better right now than US at least.
Not saying that either should be supported though^^
90% of manufacturing is done in China, India and other (formerly) poor countries. You’re paying 50p for plastic tat, £1 for a t-shirt and all the other slave labour. That’s something that USA,UK, Germany have been offshoring since the 1950s. Western countries and China heavily locked together for mutual success.
When you talk about how to support countries, what exactly do you mean? Why we continue to do business with these countries? Pride symbols didn’t even exist until 1990s.
Also if you want people to be more liberal you have to educate and share with them. It won’t happen by boycotting people. Russia is the perfect example of that.
And the US isn’t? The US doesn’t exactly have a stellar record either, so if you think the US is some bastion of human rights you haven’t. been. paying. attention. And if you think LGBT rights are safe from that you’re delusional.
And that’s not even considering the many, many atrocities and war crimes the US has committed and continues to commit overseas (Yup, that’s a ChinaDaily link - if you believe US media reports about Chinese human rights violations then you must be willing to give the Chinese media the same courtesy about US violations, right?) So my advice to you is to hold on to that smug sense of US human rights superiority for as long as you can, cause once the illusion fades you’re in for a rough time.
OP said jack shit about the US.
How can anyone in good faith support Zelensky, the bloodthirsty tyrant who turned my country into the biggest prison in the world where people are kidnapped off the streets, beaten, forced into vans and then sent to die in a meatgronder?
That’s a rhetorical question of course, I’ve heard the answer[s] so many times already, basically some version of “it’s a war so anything Zelensky does is absolutely normal/justifiable and it’s OK if you, your family and basically everyone you know dies, no big deal. No human rights apply to you, now please go and die fighting for my geopolitical interests”.
But you cannot make a surprised pikachu face after that and be shocked that people actually support the evil-evil Russia, which liberates people from the regime you support.
Zelenskyy is doing what he can to keep Ukraine independent from Russia. He has successfully sought aid and support from the West and Europe.
Russia has no legal or moral claim to Ukraine. Russians and north North Koreans are dying for Putins pointless causes. It is and has been clear that Europe would respect Russian borders who the whole thing is pointless and you deserve to pay the punishment for trying to invade Europe.
Thanks for telling me what I just said in my comment people already told me a million times, I guess? 🤷♂
Russian bot, you’re too fat. Draft to army is not comfortable, but being wiped by occupiers is much worse.
Yeah yeah, “if we don’t kill you then Russia will”. Heard that one too many times from the good guys as well :)
Yet nobody was able to show me how people were wiped out in the liberated territories (Crimea, Melitopol, etc.), how millions of us living in Russia were wiped out, etc.
Again, you don’t get to make a surprised pikachu face when you are literally telling people whom you are trying to kill that they are Russian bots.
A good faith argument kind of presupposes that all people constantly objectively question their convictions. And I don’t think we humans do that. We’re very happy with the way we think. And very capable of holding opposing viewpoints at the same time.
It is easy to be caught up in jingoistic fervor. It’s easy not to register all the incremental changes that go against your ideals. It’s easy to overlook atrocities that are committed “by your team, for the cause.” It only takes mental gymnastics we’re perfectly capable of as a species.
People support not countries but their beliefs about those countries. And people maintain their beliefs, ignoring not fitting facts.
LOL this is like one of those support Israel bcs they are the only democracy in the middle east and Palestinians hate the gays.
And LOL at using Ukraine, that had a fascist coup and STARTED the war and ethnic cleansing on the Russian speaking east to compare with Russia.
Those nazis even beat up woman’s rights marches. Not even geztting into LGBTQ people.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/ukraine-activists-at-womens-solidarity-event-must-be-protected-from-attacks/
And there we go with the Tinyman square BS, grasping at straws from half a century ago, which is not even what they make it out to be.You know nothing about Ukraine. Me, my parents and most of my relatives are russian speaking, and we never had any problems. And still, a lot of Ukrainian soldiers speak russian, even those who usually speak Ukrainian.
One of the many many discriminatory laws put in place against the Russian minority is that they can’t even use it for anything official.
Not in school, official documents or whatever.
And you want to claim ‘they had no problem’ while being attacked by nazi azov scum for 8 years?
LOLAzov are ultra-nationalists? Russian speaking guys from Berdiansk? LOL.
As of official language, it was a roll back from the law passed by pro-russian politicians, and it was the right move. We were overwhelmed by russian influence, and language was used to pull us into the russian world.
Azov, like Tornado, Sich and plenty more are a bunch of nazi scum. IDC what some Banderite says.
Really not interested in your nazi appologist BS.
Glad you’re losing the war and got what you deserved for being US/UK proxies.
So suck on thatWell, I hope russian soldiers will show you their “love”. That’s all they can do and when they return home, they’ll do it again and again.
LOL I’m not Russian.
You mistakenly assume most of the world supports your horrible regime bcs you’re in the little western information bubble.But you’re talking like a typical russian or their bot. They like to talk bullshit about nazis. Or you’re brainwashed by their propaganda. That’s really possible because their propaganda works perfectly on far right, nazis, far left and anti-western. But here’s the thing: you don’t want to mess with them. 30 years ago, we watched russian TV (because it was better), listened to russian music (because that’s what was playing everywhere), laughed at their jokes about stupid Americans, and mentally we were at russia’s side regarding almost every political point. We were against NATO, we considered the West as an enemy. We thought our nationalists were crazy freaks. Then we learned the hard way they were right. Our “enemies” helped us, and our “friends” wanted to kill us.
You could say the same for Palestine and yet a lot of the same people who criticise China and Russia love to praise Palestine…
I think a lot more of it is based on either who is the aggressor or a deep rooted hatred of the west depending on whether or not you’re a tankie
There’s a world of difference between supporting the liberation of Palestine and praising it. I don’t think anyone is under the illusion that it’s a great place to live, but that doesn’t mean I want them to be murdered.
They are literally undermining human rights, including the rights of LGBTQ people.
There’s a new country to add to this list from this year.
You do know that Russia is one of the harshest places for LGBTQ people. It’s literally illegal to display pride symbols in any way.
Most of Putin’s supporters are anti-gay. You’re not asking “How can anyone support Russia?” — you’re really asking “How can anyone who os pro-gay support Russia?”
suppressed acts of violence like the Tienanmen Square Massacre.
That’s one act of violence on the 300-2700 deaths from 36 years ago. That’s much violence than other great powers. Do you support ANY large/powerful country?
