I like the concept of RP, but man do some groups struggle to pull it off. I also (don’t lynch me) think that combat should be an RP experience. That could be my love for certain systems where you get bonuses for good, accurate descriptions and not simply, “I roll. I hit. I do X damage.”
I also (don’t lynch me) think that combat should be an RP experience. That could be my love for certain systems where you get bonuses for good, accurate descriptions and not simply, “I roll. I hit. I do X damage.”
Combat should be a RP experience regardless of system. What you’re describing is one where proactive roleplay is a mechanical system, and I’ll be honest, as someone who’s never entertained a career in the theatre, or as a pompous grim fiction writer with too many thesauruses lying around, fuck that god awful fucking noise. But the choice of what to do, and how you react after the roll should be informed by the fiction of the game and the fiction of the combat, and that is roleplay.
The fact that much of the discourse around the games and resources available to players is focused on min/maxing number munchers is a social problem, not a system one.
I think the “I move and attack” stuff can get boring, especially if it’s slow. Like, if the players are speedy about it then you’re basically playing a board game, and that’s fine. I start to lose patience when you get the “can i move here? oh i can only move 30 feet. what about here? oh that will provoke. maybe if i cast misty step? oh i can’t cast two leveled spells in a round. Can I hide first? Oh that takes my action? Sorry I usually play rogue. Uhhh I guess I just shoot them.” mode.
I also kind of really want to spend more time in systems where the talky parts have rules, too. D&D tends to be just "wing it’ and “DM decides”. If you’re at the noble’s ball and try to make a big speech to convince the duke to flee before your army attacks, there’s not really a lot of structure there. It can be fine to just “talk it out, man”, but that runs into the problem where my character on paper has CHA 20 but me in real life rocks a solid 10 CHA. Or the other case, where the fighter with 8 CHA has a salesguy for a player, and he punches well above his on-paper skills using his real life personality, where I’m sidelined.
Honestly, just removing all the social skills from D&D would normalize the system.
But there’s also games like Fate, that handle social conflict and sword conflict with the same rules. Stab someone? Roll fight vs whatever they defend with. Stab someone with your words? Roll Cruelty vs their Composure. In either case, if your dice come out on top enough then they don’t get to go on.
I think some peopel who want more RP would hate this, since it gamifies it. But I’d rather have it than the aforementioned “real life sales guy hogs the spotlight” problem.
Fate is probably my favorite system I’ve played. It’s somehow got this magic that lets people really jump into scenes and their characters that other more crunchy systems don’t.
It can be fine to just “talk it out, man”, but that runs into the problem where my character on paper has CHA 20 but me in real life rocks a solid 10 CHA. Or the other case, where the fighter with 8 CHA has a salesguy for a player, and he punches well above his on-paper skills using his real life personality, where I’m sidelined.
There is another. I’ve found that being (imo) charasmatic, and being a charasmatic character, means DMs just talk to me, rather than ever asking for any rolls. Sure, my argument is convincing, but I still want to use my numbers!
One of my players feels this way too, and has a semi-charismatic character. He’ll describe what he’s trying to do, we roll for how well it landed, and we quickly work out the highlights of what happened.
Player says, “I make a sales pitch playing on Priscilla’s hatred of our common foe, and that’s why she should sell us these explosives for cheap” and doesn’t have to actually do a sales call. Roll the dice and decide if that means she buys in, makes a counter offer, or what.
This for sure. Some of the best roleplay can happen in combat, and I honestly love both. DMs can encourage this by awarding inspiration for good RP and crafting combat scenarios that allow players to express their characters. Some examples: Do you KO or kill the baddies? Do you go stealthy or charge in? Are they honorable combatants or do they pursue victory at any cost?
Even if the players often make these decisions without considering characterization, the DM can reconteztualize them as character beats instead of meta-level decisions. Also, the classic of having players describe their own crits or killing blows can use this method as well.
Just to add to your point: I love the idea, however I lived with a group of Exalted players that took it way too far, so my group is still gunshy on doing too much combat description. So some people have seen the extremes of RP in combat, so they pull back.
I like the concept of RP, but man do some groups struggle to pull it off. I also (don’t lynch me) think that combat should be an RP experience. That could be my love for certain systems where you get bonuses for good, accurate descriptions and not simply, “I roll. I hit. I do X damage.”
Combat should be a RP experience regardless of system. What you’re describing is one where proactive roleplay is a mechanical system, and I’ll be honest, as someone who’s never entertained a career in the theatre, or as a pompous grim fiction writer with too many thesauruses lying around, fuck that god awful fucking noise. But the choice of what to do, and how you react after the roll should be informed by the fiction of the game and the fiction of the combat, and that is roleplay.
The fact that much of the discourse around the games and resources available to players is focused on min/maxing number munchers is a social problem, not a system one.
I think the “I move and attack” stuff can get boring, especially if it’s slow. Like, if the players are speedy about it then you’re basically playing a board game, and that’s fine. I start to lose patience when you get the “can i move here? oh i can only move 30 feet. what about here? oh that will provoke. maybe if i cast misty step? oh i can’t cast two leveled spells in a round. Can I hide first? Oh that takes my action? Sorry I usually play rogue. Uhhh I guess I just shoot them.” mode.
I also kind of really want to spend more time in systems where the talky parts have rules, too. D&D tends to be just "wing it’ and “DM decides”. If you’re at the noble’s ball and try to make a big speech to convince the duke to flee before your army attacks, there’s not really a lot of structure there. It can be fine to just “talk it out, man”, but that runs into the problem where my character on paper has CHA 20 but me in real life rocks a solid 10 CHA. Or the other case, where the fighter with 8 CHA has a salesguy for a player, and he punches well above his on-paper skills using his real life personality, where I’m sidelined.
Honestly, just removing all the social skills from D&D would normalize the system.
But there’s also games like Fate, that handle social conflict and sword conflict with the same rules. Stab someone? Roll fight vs whatever they defend with. Stab someone with your words? Roll Cruelty vs their Composure. In either case, if your dice come out on top enough then they don’t get to go on.
I think some peopel who want more RP would hate this, since it gamifies it. But I’d rather have it than the aforementioned “real life sales guy hogs the spotlight” problem.
Fate is probably my favorite system I’ve played. It’s somehow got this magic that lets people really jump into scenes and their characters that other more crunchy systems don’t.
There is another. I’ve found that being (imo) charasmatic, and being a charasmatic character, means DMs just talk to me, rather than ever asking for any rolls. Sure, my argument is convincing, but I still want to use my numbers!
One of my players feels this way too, and has a semi-charismatic character. He’ll describe what he’s trying to do, we roll for how well it landed, and we quickly work out the highlights of what happened.
This is the best approach I’ve found.
Player says, “I make a sales pitch playing on Priscilla’s hatred of our common foe, and that’s why she should sell us these explosives for cheap” and doesn’t have to actually do a sales call. Roll the dice and decide if that means she buys in, makes a counter offer, or what.
I agree with you.
The Three Pillars of Adventure: Combat, Exploration, Social Interaction.
These are ALL “RP” and they should all be performed in-character and creatively.
This for sure. Some of the best roleplay can happen in combat, and I honestly love both. DMs can encourage this by awarding inspiration for good RP and crafting combat scenarios that allow players to express their characters. Some examples: Do you KO or kill the baddies? Do you go stealthy or charge in? Are they honorable combatants or do they pursue victory at any cost?
Even if the players often make these decisions without considering characterization, the DM can reconteztualize them as character beats instead of meta-level decisions. Also, the classic of having players describe their own crits or killing blows can use this method as well.
Just to add to your point: I love the idea, however I lived with a group of Exalted players that took it way too far, so my group is still gunshy on doing too much combat description. So some people have seen the extremes of RP in combat, so they pull back.