Hi all! This is an alt for anonymity. Please be gentle, this is a hard topic for me to discuss.
I’m a progressive United States citizen who is looking to get out. I’m of Italian descent so I’m working on getting Italian citizenship through jure sanguinis, but it’s going to take some time, if it works at all (gotta substantiate some relations) and won’t extend to my husband until he completes a citizenship test, which he can do after living in Italy for two years.
Here’s my big question: is moving to Italy even a good idea?
I know there’s a significant element of fascism there, but that seems to be the case to varying extents throughout Europe. I’ve visited a few times as a tourist and everyone was very kind. I also have a US cousin that lives there as a permanent resident near Napoli and she is very encouraging, saying people will be welcoming. We don’t want much, just to make a living and maybe have a kid.
Italy has just changed it’s rules on citizenship. You now need to prove you had an Italian parent or grandparent in order to be eligible. Before, there was no generational cut off.
I literally just read about this. There goes that opportunity. Ugh.
Depends on how committed you are to the change.
Here’s the Reddit sub on the issue of citizenship by ancestry: https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/
Thanks for the link. I don’t understand your comment, though.
You would have to move to Italy and live there for a certain number of years. For you it is probably 10 years continuous residency although as your ancestor was Italian it might be much shorter. To go and live there you would need a visa - a work visa or maybe something like an elective visa (private income so you’re not a burden on the sate), or an investor visa (buying residency).
If you were to have a child while there I don’t know what that would mean. It probably means they would be eligible and you would have the right to stay and look after them. But you would need to carefully assess what that would mean for the child’s statehood and identity.
Thanks for the summary, much appreciated.
Unless you’re a directly targeted demographic, leaving the US is the coward’s way out. You abandon everyone who doesn’t have the means to flee. Stay and fight for something. Running away from problems doesn’t solve them, it just cedes power to the problem.
TIL: disinformation is a synonym for “presumptuous asshole”. Who knew?
TIL a ham sandwich is a synonym for cowardly pig. But we both knew that already.
LOL
You don’t know anything about this person or their personal circumstances. The only thing I know about you, based on your post history and these two comments, is you’re a divisive moron.
Dogmatic idiots like you made your country the shit hole it is today. Fuck off, blue MAGA.
I was planning on leaving if the orange got reelected. I only didn’t because in the years between when I made that decision (2021) and now, I found myself in a relationship cohabitating with my partner. She’s here as a refugee and can’t leave or that gets rescinded. It took some serious soul searching to decide to retract my longstanding plan to escape this hellish fascist-speedrun. I was even doing phone interviews. If you think you could be happy, do it.
politically speaking i think that makes no sense. i mean, you’re leaving because of the far right in power in the u.s., but then again italy is being governed by the far right. leaving your country, and therefore much of what you know, your support network, for political reasons only makes sense if there’s a well funded fear for your life because of your political activities. in that case i (as a communist) would probably go to a country with bland politics (where the far right would have no risk of reaching power for at least 10 years or so), or a straight up communist country, even if not of the same persuation.
there are other things that might make italy more attractive, such as having public healthcare, decent education, some social security coverage (subpar as compared to much of the rest of western europe, i think), cheap groceries. however, on the other side, housing and utilities are expensive. it will be better if you have a degree or some sort of qualification in high demand, it will be easier for you to get a job. however, when you’re an immigrant, locals will probably give preference to other locals, at least because it will be easier to communicate with.
Yes but isn’t Italy part of the EU? Once he’s in, it is easier to move to a different more liberal country member of the Union.
Learn the language as soon as possible, at least basic level. Bureaucracy is going to be hell, there’s no nicer way to put it. But I think you’ll enjoy living in Italy. You are not happy where you are now, so it’s great you’re doing something about it. Best of luck!
Moving to another country, especially when the native language is not English, that’s a massive challenge. It’s important that you’re going there for a positive reason. Otherwise you could have chosen anywhere, right? So your motivation to be a community member there would be low. So don’t just run away from Musk. Find other goals and reasons to aim for Italy.
Also, every country and city has some assholes loving in it. Not everyone is very kind. That’s life.
I wouldn’t want to live near Napoli, or anywhere in the south. Italy is basically 2 countries. The rich north and the extremily poor south. It’s a nice country but also has it’s own issues. I love to go on holiday there, don’t know if I would want to live there. But I have the luxury of living in The Netherlands, I guess anything is better than the US right now. Knowing the language helps a lot, if you do not speak it then for sure learn Italian, even if it’s just the basics. Americans don’t have a great status as expats or tourists, anywhere really, adjusting to the customs and loosing the americanism is recommended.
Might I ask about your concerns about Napoli? Are they more than crime?
Are there any areas you’d recommend? We’re looking for more community/family engagement and a slower lifestyle, if it helps.
I was just a tourist, so take that into account. But in Napoli I felt fine on the main shopping streets, but when I would take a side road I felt very unsafe and watched. It’s clear you don’t belong there and you feel a target on your back, or at least that was my experience. Tourist heavy areas are better, but there are more pickpockets there too. I felt like I constantly had to look over my shoulder and shouldn’t divert too far from the busy roads.
[I hate the north, they put up their nose at us like we’re peasants.
It’s really bad how the country is so divided. It would be better for everyone if this would change. But there’s a lot of crime in the south, so I wouldn’t want to live there.
I’m comparing my options with the US, China, and Japan. All three have their issues but quality of life is much higher in the latter two.
I would consider Italy to similarly have a much higher quality of life which is worth it with all politics aside.
You comment about Italy having been fascist, and I would respond with no matter what you think about the political situation in China life is leagues above that in the US. Point being it would very much be worth it!
I’d vote with Japan tbh. there’s some communities of foreigners that live around Tokyo usually.
That’s our vote too currently :)
Plenty of Chinese and Americans in Tokyo and the best parts of China plus more. Also, a good location between the other two countries. If China didn’t have such a pollution problem it might be a more difficult choice. I really cherish the pristine nature in the US and Japan.
How do you move to china??
For me I would stay with family and apply for a PR. For people in general it’s very easy to come over to work or study.
I’ve dealt with US and Chinese immigration a lot recently and got to say Chinese immigration almost made me cry with how efficient and kind they were versus the US. US took years, hundreds of pages, thousands of dollars, and rude staff. Recently Chinese immigration interaction they only took three days and they called and fixed a mistake for us. They realized I could get a better visa than I applied for and did the paperwork and applied for me without an extra charge.
Hm, maybe I should learn Chinese after German haha
It’s a very cool language. Its grammar is dead easy causing me to think it’s actually not that hard! :)
China is also a very nice place. Two things from my latest visit that are new to me:
One how much Chinese families put children before all else. I always knew this but didn’t experience it until I had my own. It’s so sweet how many random people are kind because you have a child. I rarely experience this in the US.
Two how above and beyond family members go to treat you well. You want to do or consume anything, they treat you to it. Meals made for you. Clothes washed. You’re your parents, or parents in laws, child forever. In America, I find even with the sweetest parents a line is drawn after you turn 18. In China no task is too small for a Chinese parent to do. My love language is spoken but China makes me fully understand how much more meaningful action is. You can say anything but will you actually do anything at a minutes notice?
Just thought I’d share some positive experiences I’ve had :)
Italy is being run by fascist lite.
So like the US dems?
Is that any worse though?
Fascista Leggera ⚖️ Full blown McFascism
Fascista Superleggera V12
As I haven’t seen this mentioned so far: Be sure that you both learn the language.
Seen a lot of posts in other immigration heavy subs/communities where people move to europe and don’t make any effort on learning the local language, and then are surprised/depressed that they can’t find any friends or jobs
I agree only like 20% with this. I’m an European who migrated for studies and work to 5 other European countries. It does help to learn the language but if you go to a big city or a university town, most people will speak English and you only need to learn the coffee place/restaurant/supermarket basics. It’s still a big decision and op shouldn’t do it on a whim
I have an Italian friend, so tried to learn Italian. I did French at school (30 years ago), so how hard can it be, right?
Real fucking hard.
WHY DO SO MANY THINGS HAVE GENDERS?! WHY IS AN APPLE TREE HE, BUT AN APPLE IS SHE?! (or is it the other way around?)
I’m English, so I guess I’ll just carry on the grand tradition of talking louder and using hand gestures.
WHY IS AN APPLE TREE HE, BUT AN APPLE IS SHE?!
Just wait until you learn about eggs, ears or fingers
Most Italians don’t speak correct Italian. As long as you make yourself understood, in day-to-day life it doesn’t matter.
Of course work may require you to perfect your language skills for certain roles.
Bapidi booopi?
100%. We’re taking classes and using Babbel already, just in preparation. I doubt we’ll be fluent by the time we’d move, but we’ll be functional. We just don’t want to be more entitled Americans who expect everyone to speak English. We want to do the work.
Oh hey, we’re kinda on the same boat here (without the jure sanguinis part). Probably would try to get to a university instead. A big bet, I know, but there’s not much to go on here either.
I mean you don’t have to live in Italy after getting your citizenship they are an EU country with freedom of moment.
True, but my husband does for two years prior to getting his citizenship.
Not really. Being married to an EU/EEA citizen he’ll get a residence in any of the other ones. But having a full passport will cut down on paperwork in the long term.
Also, it’s nice here in Italy. Come over! The wife and I have been here for 7 years and once the bureaucracy is dealt with it’s (mostly) quite pleasant.
That’s great! We’re trying to be forward thinking with his citizenship. I want to be sure he’s okay if I were to suddenly die or something.
Any recommendations on locations? We’re thoroughly overwhelmed figuring this all out.
Ah yeah that will be the wrinkle
Not sure that’s true. As an EU citizen, you can pretty much live anywhere in Europe. Then your husband can apply for spouse visa through you in that country. There are usually a couple of avenues available.
Edit: here’s usually the requirements for staying beyond 3 months as an EU citizen in another country. Then once you get residence, you can apply for residence for your spouse.
For Stays Beyond 3 Months You must meet one of these conditions:
- Be employed or self-employed
- Have sufficient resources and health insurance to support yourself without becoming a burden on the social assistance system
- Be studying with comprehensive health insurance and sufficient resources
- Be a family member of an EU citizen who meets any of the above conditions
The far right national government certainly isn’t good, but you’re right that it’s probably not that far off from most other big european countries right now. Definitely research the specific region you’re moving to, there are often extremely large differences between regions in european countries when it comes to political leanings, general tolerance and economic opportunities and it’s not always as clear-cut as “big cities good, countryside bad” or “north good, south bad”.
I can’t offer much but to say I’m quite jealous, lol. My wife and I have researched just about every possible opportunity to do the same, just to find everything either doesn’t apply to us or is just out of reach at this time (and for the foreseeable future). Asking for help around this topic typically leads to an insane amount of backlash online, so I’ve found…
Yeah, the Italian subs on the other place weren’t very kind when I asked a few years ago.
If I might offer some possibly applicable advice, hire a genealogist if you think you’re eligible but are stuck. I spent ten of hours researching what seemed like a dead end. We hired a genealogist who found what I needed in less than two hours and pointed out another eligible line I didn’t know qualified.
We’ve explored that route pretty thoroughly, unfortunately… Neither of us are eligible.
If you’re able, come as an expat. There are lot’s of jobs that allow you to stay and after 5 years (differs by country), you can request citizenship.
If you contribute financially you will find a warmer welcome, I guess
