China will not save us. The global proletariat must rise up.
NOWHERE did I say I oppose China. I just thought this was an interesting video. Watch the fucking thing before hating and yelling about ultras.
I really suggest "Socialism With Chinese Characteristics a Guide for Foreigners " on this, the author was the first non-chinese employee at the school for marxism and knows Chinese and has read marx and lenin in their original languages and has a wide knowledge of Chinese socialism. Goes over a lot of the myths this guy seems to be falling for, namely the idea that Deng abandoned class struggle and purposefully took the capitalist road, ruining the project forever. Paired with its historical materialist analysis of China and deep knowledge of party history it offers so much more than any westerner that’s never been to China could offer. I have yet to learn the opinion of maoists in the third world (something that I’d like to learn a lot more about ) but this video was pretty ahistorical and western brained tbh
I’ve literally read that book and watched his interviews.
“revisionism”
Hot take but:
People who seem to say this nowadays say this like a thought-terminating epithet.
For many, it is, and they say this more than “dogmatism” or “doctrinairism.”
If someone gets offended seeing the word “revisionist” you know what they are. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t criticize revisionists. “Revisionism” should not shut down conversation but lead to discussions surrounding what errors were made. Everyone should criticize both dogmatism and improper pragmatism. I know your party falls into much dogmatism itself. You use the same tired electoralist/legalist strategy that supports settler colonialism and accomplishes nothing. You dogmatically cite old CPUSA leaders and continue their failed strategies with minimal critical thought.
Revisionism is a great scourge on socialist history leading to failures from the US to Nepal. Dogmatism sucks too, but they often go hand in hand.
Also, from my viewpoint, the Communist Party of Peru is an example of revisionism in action after Gonzalo took over.
IMHO, Maoism is revisionist and I think that’s the angle you’re attacking me from. I could be wrong and you can scuttle your actual angle or position or politics all you like. I’d prefer you state what type of ML or Marxist you are rather and say it proudly rather than try to muddy the waters. Even saying “anti-revisionist ML” would be better at this point.
But making an an hominem is silly and a trite tactic, much less trying to divert the discussion.
Labels are silly. Call me a decolonial Marxist. I am generally pro-China, but am currently delving into other theory to form an all sided view. The point of the quotation is that CPUSA legalist nonsense is revisionist.
“Labels are silly.”
No, “revisionist” is a completely acceptable term; it’s just overused by a lot of Maoists nowadays.
“decolonial Marxist”
The communist movement is largely decolonial unless you’re some silly PatSoc.
The point of the quotation is that CPUSA legalist nonsense is revisionist.
No, I think you’re just being inflammatory by bringing up my politics in a convo that has nothing to do with the CPUSA.
What these “China no socialist” ultras don’t have is lack of conceptual understanding of what socialism is. The way they think is brilliantly described by Gabriel Rockhill in his Understanding Siege Socialism appearance, where he actually quoted Mao on this topic. In essence - ultras only have sensory understanding of what socialism should be, but not conceptual - let alone doing any praxis. They don’t have a good grasp of dialectical materialism, they see socialism as “being this and that and that” - a set of characteristics that are present (or absent) in a given society.
Conceptual understanding of socialism is the realization that socialism (and communism) is first and foremost a long, painful, tedious and prudently planned contradictory process of consciously building towards a certain type of socio-economic order. It concedes that building socialism, whatever form it initially takes, means that a new society is born OUT OF capitalism and under tremendous imperialist pressure. It does not, however, preclude using different tactics (when appropriate) which may seem to contradict the overall goal or strategy.
No one in their right mind would say the USSR was not socialist, even though the NEP certainly allowed a wide range of private economic activity. Oh, by the way - it never went away fully because for that you have to develop productive forces to a colossal degree. On the other hand, the USSR did have a powerful planned/socialized sector by the time Khrushchev was in power, yet his right deviations and revisionism were obvious to many.
Perhaps it reflects their weak theoretical grounding, perhaps something else (ahem fed ahem). BTW the “global proletariat must rise up” is a big red flag imo (no pun intended). Even fucking capitalists admit China is not capitalist…
Even fucking capitalists admit China is not capitalist…
I support china and I think that china is socialist
but can you provide examples of this ,because westerners (dumbasses) don’t consider china communist
I know that one hilarious video of Clinton calling to “tale back the means of production” but that’s the only example I have in my mind
Hey. Apologies for not answering for a while
I tried finding the specific article from a western media outlet where I saw some schmuck admitting it, I think it was MSN or ABC… Could not do it. I really need to sort out the stuff in my personal archives… What you can do, I guess, is searching through Lemmygrad and Dessalines’ stuff - you may find something useful there.
Meanwhile - take a look at the reference list in this post: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/229881; also - this article may be of some use to you (it’s more about China’s international standing, but there may be a few useful bits)
This one is sort of just for lulz, a classic example of “It does not mean what you think it means”
