- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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Sorry guys, I’m locking it. It’s turning into an international politics thread and I don’t have the bandwidth to watch it.
When the status quo is no longer survivable, what do you think people want to happen?
I’m removing this entire thread. Please don’t respond to the trolls. Make your point and then walk away.
“This ice is really thin and dangerous. I should kick down hard on it so I die.”
“this ice in the middle of the Pacific Ocean is thin, dangerous, and shrinking quickly, and I already maxed out my credit cards and all loans just to live below the poverty line. I can either break the ice and hope I grow gills or wait the last few hours of hydration I have left for help that I was explicitly told wasn’t coming because they said no one was on the ice.”
Ftfy.
When the alternative is a fascist dictatorship? Uhh… gee… I DON’T KNOW!
They’re dying and suffering either way. Four years of Biden was the straw that broke all hope for anything ever getting better.
Pretty much all classes of Americans lost all hope according to both general polls on the subject and the massive amount of new credit card debt and historic high records of defaults on all debts, front mortgages to car loans to credit cards to personal loans.
What do they care about a fascist dictatorship? They’re going to die poor within a decade anyway. Nothing was getting better. From the perspective of a trump voter, Trump at worst was acceleration to the inevitable, with a chance he makes things better.
Until you people understand why fascists can seize power and how people actually think, you will always lose and require the left to fix your fuck ups. Again.
What do they care about a fascist dictatorship? They’re going to die poor within a decade anyway.
So might as well drag everyone to die along with them. Right. Things are bad, so let’s just make them WORSE!
That is not only a very pessimistic perspective, but a very stupid one as well.
The power wasn’t taken. It was given. The writing was on the wall. People knew what was going to happen. Project 2025 was known and it was what was going to happen. People still voted for it.
In short, yes.
Why the fuck would they care about rich fucks like you? What have you done for them, at all, ever?
As far as Dems are concerned, both the party and seemingly it’s voters, anyone poor and white deserves it and worse.
If you refuse to meet people where they are and instead dictate how you think their life should be without any reasoning or arguments provided, people will reject you even without a history of explicitly abandoning the working class when you were needed the most.
Project 2025 doesn’t scare normal people. It’s awful, sure, but it’s not worse. It’s not worse than being denied benefits for 30 years and having to scrape by in mutual aid network of neighbors and family. It’s not worse than being laid off with no available work within a hundred miles and having to just live. It’s not worse than seeing your family wiped out over the last 5 decades. It’s not worse than the US government personally guaranteeing opioids are a safe non addictive treatment for the pain your non union job gave you.
It’s simply not worse than barely not surviving. Sorry you’re just now suffering. Maybe listen to the left next time when we tell you not to fucking brag about the economy to people out of work and killing themselves. maybe don’t message about trans rights to people that can’t afford healthcare even with the ACA. Maybe don’t celebrate giving another 100 billion to fucking Ukraine when there are people living near open sewage lines and glad to have that right here in the US. Maybe don’t celebrate immigration when you know you’re not punishing the companies hiring the undocumented over native workers or try to 'correct the record’s about how hard immigrants have it to a group thats been economically depressed since before the personal computer came out.
Life was better for you, great, it wasn’t for most Americans. It sucks you’re getting dragged down to where your fellow Americans are. Maybe, though, class solidarity. Maybe, though, treat them like humans for the first time. Maybe, though, be better than any Democrat.
Are you an idiot or something? Biden did a fuckton for the working class lol.
Biden’s admin :
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orchestrated the fastest rollout of free vaccines to Americans in response to the pandemic
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strengthened Obamacare,
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got inflation under control,
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forgave fuckloads of student debt,
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fixed the economy out of a recession that would’ve made the current cost of living look like paradise in less capable hands,
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cracked down on big tech monopolies,
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cracked down on junk fees/charges, cracked down on union-busting,
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did the legwork to ensure creation of jobs and an entire industry’s worth will be brought home,
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empowered federal agencies to monitor and regulate AI,
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passed bipartisan bills for $1.2 trillion investments in building and replacing crumbling US infrastructure,
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strengthened privacy regulations and last but not least
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literally gave people free money.
Did I mention he reduced violent crime, strengthened gun control, made birth control OTC, and that he did all of these broadly popular things alongside protections for minorities like trans people while dealing with every other branch of government and the Supreme Court being actively hostile?
Things are fucking awful for sure, that’s late stage capitalism for ya, but they could be a helluva lot worse, and Biden and his admin is genuinely to thank for some of that.
What was actually the problem with Biden again? That he’s just kind of old or like, not a very charismatic guy or something?
Who the fuck cares if Biden mumbles, an ideal president should be a bookish nerdy guy with strong principles and belief in something who grew up to be able to tell whats baloney and what isn’t so he can hire competent, genuine people who will give him good advice he can implement.
So you vote in another old, barely coherent guy but this one is also a corrupt racist convict backed by oligarchs and probably also Egypt and definitely Russia, who may or may not turn the country into a dictatorial clown show and who also made everything worse last time and embarrassed the nation on the global stage?
Because what - he dances funny? Makes fun of veterans? Says Obama founded ISIS? Promoted horse dewormer as a cure? Is actually a puppet for the dogecoin meme guy who wants to destroy the entire federal government?
Or are you just nostalgic about the Walmart toilet paper brawls?
What’s next, he’s gonna get shirtless and ride a bear too?
I’m starting to think you Americans have genuine brainrot. Do you really think removing pronouns from emails and mentions of gay people from the CDC is going to save the economy?
If you want Left-Wing change (better employee protections, less inequality, affordable housing and rent, less exploitation, green policy, minority rights etc), you vote for the most Left-Wing choice you have and you vote hard and you do it over and over for a decade or so, then they get comfortable and brave and the more leftie factions can sway centrists in the party without worrying about losing elections.
For a local example see the state of California, their Dems are way to the left of the Centre-Right that the national Dems occupy, and that’s because they don’t have to worry about being voted out and can afford to not please some of the electorate
Idk about the guy you replied to but I’m not “rich folks” by any stretch of the imagination and we here in the UK have it even worse, so much worse than y’all have it with at least dreams of six figure salaries where here it’s fucking feudal, you’re either a landlord or you’re piss broke.
What I’d like to know is why your country went full retard, because I don’t want the UK to also go full retard.
To answer your bullet point list:
- Thanks Trump.
- Didn’t happen, more people have lost ACA access in the last four years than gained access
- No, no he didn’t.
- …that was already slated to be forgiven, he only forgave what was already allowed under current law, which is an automatic process
- …what fucking Dreamworld are you living in, were in the middle of a depression. This lie specifically is why Dems lost
- No he didn’t.
- No, he didn’t. He did break unions himself though
- No, he didn’t. The only thing close is the chips act which failed to actually bring any significant production
- No, he didn’t.
- 1.2 trillion over the next decade, most of which was written by Republicans
- Just no, no he didn’t. This one is the least supported.
- The stimulus that was less than what fucking Mexico gave their citizens?
I hate that you fucking fascists use the firehose tactic this fucking often to advocate for your bullshit. I’m shocked you’re on db0, I thought they had a screening process.
And lets not forget that where Biden had limited success it was largely due to Republicans blocking attempts to improve things, not because there weren’t any attempts by his administration or the Democrats. I will never understood how poor people think the party of unbridled corruption is on their side.
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rich fucks like you
LoL!
You completely misinterpreted my comment thanks to your twisted perception. And your reasoning makes ko sense at all. Biden has done so much for the working class and Trump is tearing it all down. This was the obviously conclusion.
This isn’t desperate people trying to get out of the status quo. This is imbeciles who believed a con man a SECOND FUCKING TIME after he already screwed them over once. And this second time around he had a whole bigger team that would exploit him to execute their white supremacist fascist plan. And it was known!
So spare me that bullshit about poor working class people looking for something different. It’s a bunch of stupid intolerant hicks who voted Trump because they don’t understand what a trans person is.
You’re exactly the bigoted type of ‘person’ that needs to learn solidarity before you become perpetually confused as to why you’re always going to lose.
Racism, misogyny, and billionaires getting richer?
Sure, but the status quo was killing them, and Biden/Harris promised the status quo.
So maybe one of those things won’t kill them. Or won’t kill them as slowly.
If the same people that tell you record credit card debt and defaults mean a booming economy are telling you all people are equal, well you might start to question it, especially if you constantly are bombarded by propaganda reinforcing the latter being a lie.
What choice did they have? Continue dying by people explicitly lying to them? Or maybe try to give in to the other guy even if they don’t agree with him? Or maybe even just say fuck it and hope Trump does as much damage as possible and hope for something to grow from the ashes.
Then those people are morons, because they already saw what the “other guy” is. I could forgive it in 2016. But that piece of shit lied, wrecked the economy, incited a fucking insurrection, and constantly distracted from real problems with nonstop reality tv drama. We all know who the “other guy” is, and he’s far worse than the status quo. The only possible point in your explanation is the nihilistic one, but voting to end the world is ignorant and selfish. By doing so, that person is actively condoning way more suffering for others. That is far worse than whatever status quo they perceive.
If you voted for this monster knowing all that has been done and all claims of what will be done, blood is in your hands and you have no right to claim innocence. With all that will come, remember that you actively chose this path.
And you people will never have power again and never make them suffer again.
That’s the point they want to make. Yeah, it might be worse, but you fucks won’t be their owners like you have been.
They picked their owner, since they never had the option to be free.
Cutting off the nose to spite the face, got it. So mature and productive.
Closer to ‘bring down the enemy with you.’
And before you make excuses, yes, Dems have acted as an enemy to a large number of American people. Not the culture war bullshit, just the economic and drug war.
People are desperate and dying. Dem officials being insider trading hypocrites mean it’s super easy to propagandized against them. Dem states tending towards being wealthier and having an overall arrogant air about them means it’s easy to lump every dem in with the outspoken rich cali voter that sees all Republicans as cousin fucking “morons”.
So why would they care about you; you, by their view of lumping you in with all rich people, have been killing them for decades.
For what it’s worth, I am not rich and live in the deep-red south.
So, to summarize: Enrich the corrupt billionaires against your own self-interest and wellbeing to own the libs… brilliant. I guess you sure taught us a lesson!
Serious number of posts you have made for a 2 week old account.
I use social media to be social. This always struck me as a weird tactic for ad hominem, can I ask why you people use it?
Your post history says otherwise.
So i don’t make a lot of posts now?
You’re a professional agitator.
No, I’m just disagreeing with you. You know you’re not important enough to waste money on. No you’re not being gang stalked, no one’s reading your thoughts with God guns or crystal frequencies, and no the 7.5 billion people that disagree with your view are not paid to do so.
The Trump voters replied that were in a constitutional crisis because they believed we were (and still are) in one from the Biden administration. They believe Trump hasn’t fixed the crisis yet.
This is unfortunately the answer.
Only 20% of the country voted for him (77mil votes out of 330mil pop) or 49% of people who voted (77mil out of 156mil) so statistically I guess that 27% accounts for people who voted for fascism.
"I want to be titillated all the time! Homework is boring!
I’d rather eat shit and destroy my life than show patience and consistency!"Then, in an interminable sausage of typical hollow gestures, a lazy, atrophied mindless lack of self-awareness:
“This government in no way represents me!”
Well, those are certainly a lot of words.
The planet is literally being destroying and this lib wacko is crying about kids doing their homework. Wow. Keep blaming the voters tho.
How hard could it be? You go into a voting booth, look at the ballot, see Donald Trumps name and pick the other one. It was literally that simple, yat half of Americans fucked that up.
Half of voting americans.
Turtle Island has been in crisis since the Europeans arrived. The terrorism has not stopped, and has only gotten worse.
Why do people trust the voting system in USA, when everything else is highly manipulated?
Because admitting that he cheated would take away all hope for our government. I suspect that no one wants to go there.
Yeah, 100%.
The admitted he was cheating when dude was convicted for like 20+ felonies.
They also admitted that the injustice system is strictly for torturing poor people.
This election in particular was very suspicious. Not the inordinate amount of bomb threats, not only the statistically impossible high numbers of bullet ballots only in swing states just enough to push the vote counts over the ‘automatic recount’ limits, not only the guy who lost the popular vote twice winning all the swing states and the popular vote, not only Elon knowing the results hours beforehand, and not only how much Trump & Elon openly bragged about how easy the election was to hack:
“[Elon] was very effective. He knows those vote counting computers very well, and we ended up winning Pennsylvania, like, in a landslide.” - Donald Trump (https://www.reddit.com/r/somethingiswrong2024/comments/1i5bnpp/trump_praising_elon_for_well_he_knows_vote/)
Even still, the point does remain that a good plurality of our society is openly fascist even if you factor out those ridiculous bullet ballots, I guess. It’s frustrating how it seems like everyone is just ignoring all the improbabilities just because Republicans have gaslighted us into believing that any and all election skepticism = stupid conspiracy theorist.
The word conspiracy theorist is extreamly effective, most people are afraid to be connected to that word.
Starting to really believe in this “Elon used SpaceX Technology to hack voting machines” theory that Donald Trump keeps alluding to.
So, are we gonna have the leftist equivalent of QAnon this cycle?
Oh but they believe it’s the LGBTQ community that is destroying the democracy, not a fascist dictator and his billionaire cocksuckers
Actually, the fascist dictator is the one who sucks the billionaires’ cocks
Didn’t trump win with about 27% of the population voting for him?
Why didn’t more people vote then when it was public knowledge that this could be there result?
The system has always been rigged. Many people can’t vote, most people’s votes don’t matter at all, both candidates are trash, etc.
The second and third absolutely apply to me, but since my vote doesn’t matter anyway, I just vote for a third party that I believe in. The expected winner will pretty much always win my state by 15-20 percentage points, and all third party candidates combined are something like 5%, so even if nobody voted for spoilers in my state, the outcome wouldn’t change.
There are only a handful of states where your vote for President actually matters, and only a handful more where it might matter if you got literally all third party voters to oppose the expected winner.
We simply need more people to vote, and we need to fix our voting system so the rest of the country feels like voting matters. And I don’t think we even need to throw out the electoral college, just throw out first past the post and we could get some interesting upsets.
Some of it was voter suppression. And not just the overt kind but also things like voting on a weekday and hour long queues when in most civilized countries voting takes less than half an hour total including wait time even at the busiest times of day.
But more people did vote, as evidenced by @[email protected]’s post here.
They should’ve, but… it seems a lot of Americans just aren’t compelled to perform their civic duty. I personally could never understand it, I obviously voted Harris, but in my experience (With Examples!) the average American is not:
1) solution-oriented
- “I can’t eat healthy to improve my health, it costs too much money! Oh, beans are incredibly cheap? But some people (not me) are allergic to soy!”
- “Everything costs too much money, I have no savings for retirement! Oh, I can dedicate even just a small portion of my income ($50 or so) to a retirement account, just to get into the habit of saving? But I’m already being as frugal as I can and it’s just not possible!”
- And of course “Politicians are all evil and corrupt! Oh, since I live in a democracy I can vote for candidates who aren’t or, if there’s truly no good candidates, run for office myself? But that’s too much effort and I’m too tired from work!”
2) interested in learning
- “I don’t think I can vote, since I don’t understand politics (never mind the fact it takes maybe max 4 hours to research which candidates you like)”
- “I can’t go to a climate rally, because I don’t understand the issue enough (never mind the fact I hold the Library of Alexandria in the palm of my hand)”
3) capable of caring for others in their community at potential cost to themselves (even if that cost is just “effort” or “time”)
- “Communism is bad bc imagine if everyone’s grades in school were equalized!” (heard this one in high school, the guy who said this was infuriatingly praised by the whole damn class. Regardless of any discussions of Capitalism v Socialism v Communism, this terrible analogy always irked me because it really emphasizes just how infantile most criticism of socialist/communist policy really is. You know what? If “getting a bad grade” because you “didn’t work hard enough” in this analogy led to you literally dying because you couldn’t afford healthcare, I would share my damn grades with you. And I was a straight A student lol)
4) capable of thinking with their logic rather than their emotions
- See every single person who abstained from voting because they were single-issue voters over Palestine even though Trump was way worse on their single issue. Once someone even told me something to the tune of “If you’re thinking with logic and doing anything other than outright crying at everything that’s going on, you’re an awful person” (susceptible to propaganda much?)
Idk. This got long lmao, didn’t realize how many gripes I had bottled up. This is all stuff I have actually heard or seen ppl say. People in the US frustrate me, and I am hoping this is an effect unique to America, perhaps because of American exceptionalism or the massive quantities of Russian/Chinese propaganda aimed to destabilize the US or too much individualism or something, because I really want to just leave the country and be done with American culture forever.
Hit the nail on the head. American culture has become increasingly apathetic and cynical in recent years. There’s a lot of factors at play but I would say the concentration of wealth and resulting decline of the middle class as well the erosion of a sense of community are two key factors behind this.
their civic duty.
Barf. Condescending and delusional wacko. Keep blaming the voters though. It’s a real winner strategy smh…
Yeah. Anericans dererve collapse, they brought it on themselves.
Trouble is they’ll drag the rest of us down with them.
Trouble is they’ll continue to drag the rest of us down with them.
Americans just aren’t compelled to perform their civic duty
Maybe, it could also be that voting feels like a waste of time in the majority of states where the outcome is pretty much known after the primaries.
For example, I live in Utah. The R candidate will win by more than 15 percentage points even if a popular independent runs against him (e.g. Evan McMullin). On my ballot, some seats aren’t even contested because everyone knows running against the R is a waste of time and money. I’ve considered running if only to give people in my district a choice, and I’d probably get 20% of the vote as a protest, but still lose even with an incredibly strong campaign. Even for many of the non-partisan seats, candidates get endorsements by R office holders.
If that’s what happens every single time, why bother voting?
I still vote and am disappointed every single time, mostly because I feel it’s my civic duty. And apparently 69% of Utah does as well, though I guess something like 60% of those like the outcome of the election.
- I’m guessing this is true in most parts of the world
- Same as 1, though going to rallies also don’t really matter IMO. Real work is done through lobbies.
- The US is #5 for most charitable donations. There are multiple ways to care for your community.
- Look no further than here on lemmy to see that this isn’t an American thing. People are tribal, and going with the group is way easier than thinking for yourself.
This is all stuff I have actually heard or seen ppl say.
Sure, and I’ve heard people say exactly the opposite. Be careful about your own biases and get a larger sample than just your personal interactions. That’s why we have polls and studies.
I really don’t think this is unique to the US, I think it’s pretty common for humanity as a whole.
That said, there are certainly things to dislike about American culture, and as an American, I certainly have plenty of my own. However, there are also a lot of things to like about American culture.
I highly recommend you look for the good instead of the bad, because you’ll find it.
You perform your civic duty by not voting in the same way as you would by voting.
You perform your civic duty by not voting in the same way as you would by voting.
Then you’re implicitly voting for whomever wins (since you’re “doing your duty” by doing fuck all), and you better be happy with it.
So yeah, we’ll continue to blame non voters for tacitly approving of trump and letting him win.
Not voting delegitimises the government and puts pressure on the political system. The minor benefits of that are not countered by any drawbacks if you are in the vast majority of states that are not swing states.
But my main point is: you have to develop a solid ideological viewpoint and act on it if you actually want your voice to be represented. If you just vote for the parties that you do not agree with because you feel like you have to you are actually not doing your “democraric duty” and instead are legitimising the government that does not represent your desires, thusly eroding democracy.
You can say, that if a lot of people thought this way and voted for, say, Jill Stein, or not at all, the Democrats would not win. To that I would say, why would I want them to win if I do not agree with their politics? But most importantly, if people were actually willing to stand their ground and at least try to hold politicians accountable and fight for political representation(of their views) you would not have the political fiasco you have now in the first place.
All of these discussions need to have the context of TIMING added.
why would I want them to win if I do not agree with their politics?
For me, it depends on when you ask. Right now, yeah the Democratic Party seems pretty fucked, and poised to continue our corporate oligarchy IF they ever get a chance to have power again. The party (or some other party to replace them) needs to rebuild around young progressive voices focused on actually helping society.
In the voting booth back on Election Day though? Well let me think about the actual choice in that moment. And keep in mind I live in a swing state, so I vote as if I may actually affect the outcome.
Option A: vote Democrat. We get things like
- government and police serving the rich
- inequality status quo
- Israel genocide support status quo
- Garbage healthcare status quo
Wow, I certainly don’t support THAT mess! Surely I’ll just go for the next one…
Option B: vote Republican. Then instead it’s
- oligarchy in turbo mode, with billionaires taking the place of governors at the inauguration and other billionaires directly trying to cut off funding to the needy
- inequality getting worse, due in part to the above
- Israel genocide in turbo mode, in fact let’s just take over Gaza ourselves
- Healthcare status quo would be a gift in comparison to whatever RFK and the other fuckups have brewing
- Unqualified loyalists put into positions of power (I can’t decide if my favorite is the talking head as Secretary of defense, the Russian asset nominated for national intelligence, or the Trump donor and fossil fuel CEO for energy, etc)
- certain types of people are supposed to just not exist any more
- other types of people can exist but just not have as many rights or be in control
- destroying the careers and lives of thousands of career civil servants because they work remotely, or because they investigated a criminal once that Trump likes
- ripping tons of other people out of their communities and making them disappear to some unfamiliar faraway place because they have the wrong skin tone or could not produce their papers
- fascism?
- Demonstrated criminal and traitor in the White House?
- Let’s pardon that criminal traitor’s accomplices while we’re at it.
- Seriously this list could go on and on, and yes some of these specifics weren’t known in November but it was all VERY predictable
Option C: vote for any other candidate or just stay home.
- your true best choice, and/or your disgust for the whole thing, are noted and recorded (and since third party candidates won’t get elected, people won’t attack you for legitimizing 100% of the wacky shit in their platform with a single vote)
- A or B are guaranteed to win, regardless of literally anything you do.
- If you have any level of preference between A and B, you have mathematically helped the choice you like less by not voting for the only viable alternative.
It is shit that this “lesser evil” choice is there, and our voting and 2-party system are flawed in so many ways that need to be fixed. But once you’re to the general election, this is the practical reality of your choices. Again, I’m in a swing state so I vote as if I might actually have an effect on the outcome.
After what I’ve seen over the last decade, I want a very very different political party (or several of them, if I can dream) to oppose the conservative hate, greed, and negativity in our society and institutions.
But damn it, I care about other people and I try to help them in ways that I can actually affect the world, not the ways that make me feel the most morally superior or like I have the cleanest hands. Voting “against” something instead of “for” something isn’t a great place to be. This is obvious. But when the thing you’re voting against is fucking evil and wants to destroy people you talk with every day, once it gets to the point of a general election I am voting against that piece of shit and all his enablers in the most impactful way I can. Every time.
I see your point, but I should say that I agree that it would be better for you to have Harriss than Trump. However, that does not mean you should have voted for her. Dependending on the state you are in, your vote either has no effect on the election at all, or it has only a very very very small chance to decide it. And for as long as it does not decide it it is irrelevant. So even if the benefit of not voting is very small, like keeping your moral integrity or embodying democratic principles, it is still worth it.
That’s a lot of words to say that you don’t care about other people or what happens to them. I’m sure trans people at home or those suffering under the neo-colonial regime of the US are proud of you.
you have to develop a solid ideological viewpoint and act on it if you actually want your voice to be represented.
Yeah, I guess that’s where we differ. I use my ideological viewpoint to protect people rather than let immense harm come to them in the vain attempt to make a point to political organizations. But it amazes me the lengths people go to justify increasing the amount of suffering they are allowing to occur based on “principles”.
And if I was a US citizen and I did not vote, or voted for Trump, what would change? I will tell you what, nothing. You can vote for whomever you want, and still only one candidate will win, and your vote will likely not matter even if you live in a swing state but you probably don’t, so it doesn’t matter at all. You make it sound like by abstaining you elect Trump, but if your vote is not decisive, it does not have a negative impact on others. So indulging my ego would do no harm. But it would delegitimise the system I am opposed to.
You are complaining about the neo-colonial regime of the US. I am not certain how legitimising the party that supports it is going to change anything in that regard, but please, enlighten me.
Every vote is a vote for the system, it does not matter whether you vote for Trump or not. If you love the right-wing democratic party and don’t want anti-imperialist, leftist and even centre-left views present in your political system, please, do not do anything and just vote for whatever mediocre politician the party appoints while disregarding the popular will. But stop complaining about people that actually want their views represented.
Democracy does not just arise naturally, it has to be maintained. You have to stand your ground, demand what is rightfully yours. If you do not even try to do that, and just defer to the political system, you do not understand what it takes to have a democracy.
Why would anyone vote for a party that they are opposed to ideologically?
those suffering under the neo-colonial regime of the US are proud of you.
I wouldn’t expect the victims of genocide to be proud of people for voting for either genocidal candidate. It’s fairly offensive that someone with your callousness and privilege would even speak for them.
it amazes me the lengths people go to justify increasing the amount of suffering they are allowing to occur based on “principles”.
Yes, you are enabling endless violence by your support for these disgusting politicians and their racist, patriarchial empire. Your principles are bad actually.
Not voting delegitimises the government and puts pressure on the political system.
And then once enough people aren’t voting the government-legitimacy fairy will come down from the sky and wave a wand to fix everything.
This was famously the case back in the 1780s when most people in the US couldn’t vote at all. The US government was illegitimate, and so it instantly ceased to exist, which is why there’s actually no problems at all today. Glad we nipped that one in the bud back then.
pressure on the political system
They literally only care about voters dude. They don’t give a shit about non voters.
thusly eroding democracy
Even in a full, complete and true democracy, compromise is still the name of the game. The very nature of a collective people making government forces compromise. You will never not have to compromise, and compromise is not “erosion of democracy”. Your entire premise is simply wrong; democracy is not just getting what you want.
Modern states derive their legitimiacy from the will of the people, so an election with low turnout is less legitimate than an election with higher turnout. This can be noticable when a very small amount of people votes. This is why they repeat that you have to vote, no matter for whom, this pro-voting propaganda is meant to legitimise the government.
It is you who are wrong about my position. Democracy is not getting what you want, it is the government following the will of the majority, which it does not because the democratic party has been supporting a largely unpopular genocide, and if you are against it, you have no way to have your view(which is popular) represented in the political system. The democrats don’t give a shit what their voters want, they will vote for them anyway, for as long as they hate the other party more. But if the majority of people hates both parties/candidates, and votes for the one they hate less, this is not democracy.
Also, the democratic party sucks for many reasons, not just the recent Palestine development.
Turnout was one of the highest at 64%. (2020 was the highest recently at 66%) It’s hard to get everyone to do anything.
Looks like all we need is a civil war or threat of civil war to get people to the polls, since the last time it was higher was the mid-1800s…
Yes, but he actually has a net positive approval rating amongst Americans at the moment. That will probably wane a bit, currently people perceive him as delivering on his campaign promises through the executive orders.
Citations needed.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/
Paradoxically, if you look right above that and click on whether they approve or disapprove of him, it’s 49 approve/44 disapprove right now. I’m not hugely surprised, as I’ve met several people who say they don’t like him as a person but they like XYZ thing he’s said or wants to do.
So, they dislike Trump, but they hate immigrants and trans people more?
Here’s that link for those who are somehow not too lazy to click the first link, but too lazy to click the poll just above it. And a screen cap for those too lazy to click either:
Sure: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/
Approval +5.2. Favorability isn’t quite the same as approval.
A bunch of them think the crisis is we haven’t done enough fascism yet.
Some amount of those may believe the crisis is that the Constitution itself needs to be ignored or rewritten, because they heard so on right wing media. The ladder-pullers who believe birthright citizenship needs to go, alongside those who now desire a king rather than our backsliding and slightly less corrupt system of checks and balances.
We were arming a genocide for over a year, in open violation of both domestic and international law.
If you’re just now noticing the crisis, you support genocide and share in the blame for how we got here.
It isn’t a crisis when it’s over there. It is a crisis when it’s over here.
‘Surely enabling politicians to disobey the law couldn’t backfire.’
“Unsure: 19%”
(¬_¬)
Wouldn’t surprise me if 20% of people don’t even know what a constitutional crisis is or haven’t been paying attention to the news.
I have to wonder, this has to be a uniquely American problem, right? I mean, the sheer quantities of stupidity in our society? Somehow I feel like I gotta hold onto hope people are like this just because of “a poor education system” or “propaganda” or “leaded gas” etc and it’s not just innate human nature for a portion of the population to be so goddamn stupid.
Sadly there weren’t polls to observe during previous dictatorship takeovers. None, that I know of. So to be able to gauge the stats of stupidity in Nicaragua or Germany during the world war isn’t possible. But I guess we can at least look at the accounts from the people of that time. I have a sinking suspicion that the human species is genuinely just this stupid, though. I’m in process of reading the book, “They Thought They Were Free” and “Before the Revolution” and it seems people are genuinely just very simple. Sorry, friend.
