If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, “What? No, definitely not.”
I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as “Nazi”, so I think you’ll get that initial “huh” reaction regardless.
Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
Tbf, if someone asked to join my discord server and asked if we’re Nazis I would also ask for further clarification. Not because there’s a chance we might be Nazis but because it’s an odd question.
If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
The Imperium fanboys that only play with regular Space Marines, Custodes, and the like seem to be the demographic. If they complain about playing any xeno races, that can be a tip. Then again, some of them are just really autistic. It’s not an absolute guarantee, but yeah, the Imperium, understandably, attracts fascists.
I feel like we probably need to address the fact that, unfortunately, the rigid fix rules based world views of society are inherently appealing to those on the spectrum. By no means does being autistic make one automatically tolerant or decent. Autistic people can vote, can endorse the violent oppression of those found disagreeable, can persuade others to their view, and be all manners of discriminatory.
I believe being on the spectrum may make it easier to open constructive dialog, but not always.
Being on the spectrum myself coming from a conservative upbringing, i am in no illusion of what kind of person i could have been. It has been countless peoples conflicting perspectives and patience that has lead me to (what i hope to) be fair and tolerant to other perspectives and backgrounds
Little Kitten (The Captain General) is definitely not a fascist. Not sure about the rest of them, I’m pretty sure they went entirely around the bend once Big E got confined to the golden throne.
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
The space marines regularly have groups that splinter off from their ideology (soul drinkers) or renounce it entirely (see chaos), last I knew the dark Eldar are the ones who got corrupted by a chaos God but the craft world Eldar weren’t “created by a deity”, the orks are space fungus that have a psychic connection which creates their deities of Gork and Mork.
I can see how it can be interpreted that way and the gene seed is a really good point but I’m having a hard time making all the other connections.
Even the inquisition has tons of characters that either change their ideology or side entirely.
Many people are not taught much political philosophy in schools so even if they know the lore they might not actually grasp what fascism is.
I know Im spending a lot of time right now clarifying what is fascism, what is nazism, and what is neither and is just a government being evil for other reasons.
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
I hate that nazis have adopted the DKoK. I love them because I really like the french inspired aspect of the design (like the trench coat) and I really love gasmasks. I got into 40k because of them and started an imperial guard army. But the amount of chuds that play them and the broader imperium grossed me out. Now I play chaos space marines (Red Corsairs (cause pirates) and Thousand Sons (cause I like magic and the drama)) and am gonna convert my imperial guard into chaos guard.
I always kind of feel like a bad leftist because I really like playing germany in Hearts of Iron. I can’t help it that germany has a monster industrial base and democratic countries are mechanically limited. I just like my jank tank battalions and some nice relaxing map painting but no other country has the industrial base for that without also being limited by the democratic ideology mechanics or having to go through the whole process to switch ideology.
I think that’s more to do with Hearts of Iron not being fully realistic in Germany’s industrial capacity. All the memes and myths about them make them out to be far more capable than they really were in reality and HoI are matching that perception.
In reality, Germany’s success was largely due to huge risks and brinkmanship, and the Allies kept backing down and letting the Axis take bites out of them. There were many points in time where any allied response would have wiped out the German military, particularly their invasions Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland. On top of that, all of the Axis had military doctrines based on fast, intense, and most importantly short campaigns where they could soly rely on stockpiles.
Once the Axis achieved some (admittedly large) successes, they started believing they could take on the Allies in a full scale attritional war, which is what eventually ground them to dust. They could have potentially won if they kept taking small bites, but that’s not the war that was fought.
Or Caesar’s Legion as that is much more clearly fascistic. The BoS can be but they are malleable depending on the game. Fallout Lore is remarkably inconsistent.
fallout 3 was released when the brotherhood were essentially militaristic hermits
The Brotherhood has been authoritian racist tech bros since FO1, with most of their expanded lore coming out of Tactics long before FO3 was even a concept. Their goals were to take technology (that they didn’t even understand) to keep it out of the wrong hands, while also eliminating any non-humans they encounter. They grew in rank by essentially running protection rackets and straight up conscripting wastelanders into slavery.
They are portrayed this way right from the get go, you just have to actually do some digging and read their holotapes to find out how bad they really are in the first two games if you didn’t get the hint from your first encounter with them where they literally send you to a giant irrated hole in the ground, expecting you to die as a way of saying “get lost and go fuck yourself.”
Bethesda tried to make them less evil and less stupid in 3.
I kind of ignore tactics and I think I made my actual distain of them pretty clear. The problem was fallout 3 making them into the good guys. They never were. My pin was as tongue in cheek as the naming of the primary fan site at the time “no mutants allowed.”
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
Every faction is the bad guys, it’s individuals (or sub groups like the salamanders) within the fiction that get to rise above their faction and be good guys.
The very premise is “everything is fucked up, trapped in the low equilibrium of the Prisoner’s dilemma where no faction can genuinely rise above because the others will take advantage”. The Imperium of Man, aka Catholic Space Nazis, are part of that. Other parts are the “Torture like your life depends on it, because it does” Dark Elves, the “If I stop fighting and slaughtering, I get a terrible headache” World Eaters, the “we infect people with brainwashing worms so they sabotage planetary defenses before calling our massive murderbug army to devour all life” Tyranids and plenty more pleasantries.
But the players don’t share the values of the faction the pretty plastic pieces they play with represent. Well, most of them. But if you uncritically adopt the “Kill all mutants, human supremacy, fanatical devotion to a single autocrat” mentality of the Imperium…
(Good guys, by some definition, exist, but they’re usually just good when compared to their peers, not to our moralic values. Lobotomised cyborg slaves and casual speciesism are still par for the course even for those good guys.)
It’s not about “getting someone”. The concerts are in clubs that have a zero tolerance. If there’s a Nazi band on the stage shit will hit the fan. This may range from other bands refusing to play in the same stage to people attacking each other.
You get usually two kind of responses:
People are pretty clear in their response: “Of course not” or “Fuck Nazis” are the usual replies here.
Then there are others who get offended or try to discuss what Nazi means. That’s a “yes” in disguise and enough to not book them.
If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, “What? No, definitely not.”
This is also ‘getting confused’, to be fair, lol.
I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as “Nazi”, so I think you’ll get that initial “huh” reaction regardless.
Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
I mean if they go “well the left calls anyone they don’t like nazis, what even is a nazi”, they’re a nazi.
Tbf, if someone asked to join my discord server and asked if we’re Nazis I would also ask for further clarification. Not because there’s a chance we might be Nazis but because it’s an odd question.
I’d be wondering ehat did I do to make them think I might be on a Nazi Discord server lol. I get you.
I would also accept “did you just call me a fucking nazi?”
If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
If the context is 40k, definitely not an unexpected question.
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
The Imperium of Man is overtly fascistic. Some really like this bit for all the wrong reasons
I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
The Imperium fanboys that only play with regular Space Marines, Custodes, and the like seem to be the demographic. If they complain about playing any xeno races, that can be a tip. Then again, some of them are just really autistic. It’s not an absolute guarantee, but yeah, the Imperium, understandably, attracts fascists.
I feel like we probably need to address the fact that, unfortunately, the rigid fix rules based world views of society are inherently appealing to those on the spectrum. By no means does being autistic make one automatically tolerant or decent. Autistic people can vote, can endorse the violent oppression of those found disagreeable, can persuade others to their view, and be all manners of discriminatory.
I believe being on the spectrum may make it easier to open constructive dialog, but not always.
Being on the spectrum myself coming from a conservative upbringing, i am in no illusion of what kind of person i could have been. It has been countless peoples conflicting perspectives and patience that has lead me to (what i hope to) be fair and tolerant to other perspectives and backgrounds
Ahh so the ones chasing the Roman empire feeling (that’s what I always got from custodes)
Little Kitten (The Captain General) is definitely not a fascist. Not sure about the rest of them, I’m pretty sure they went entirely around the bend once Big E got confined to the golden throne.
(This is fourth degree TTS warpfuckery)
I must be behind on the heresy lore, I had no idea they were named little kitten
Warhammer 40k lore is on the level of racism and genetic determinism that resonates with nazibrain.
Every faction is a caricature and parody of some ideological concept where every member is obligated to live and die exactly as they’re supposed to.
That’s not at all what I picked up from it. Could you give an example?
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
The space marines regularly have groups that splinter off from their ideology (soul drinkers) or renounce it entirely (see chaos), last I knew the dark Eldar are the ones who got corrupted by a chaos God but the craft world Eldar weren’t “created by a deity”, the orks are space fungus that have a psychic connection which creates their deities of Gork and Mork.
I can see how it can be interpreted that way and the gene seed is a really good point but I’m having a hard time making all the other connections. Even the inquisition has tons of characters that either change their ideology or side entirely.
Many people are not taught much political philosophy in schools so even if they know the lore they might not actually grasp what fascism is.
I know Im spending a lot of time right now clarifying what is fascism, what is nazism, and what is neither and is just a government being evil for other reasons.
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
“I only play black templars and krieg. No, what shovel meme?”
hmmmmmm
I hate that nazis have adopted the DKoK. I love them because I really like the french inspired aspect of the design (like the trench coat) and I really love gasmasks. I got into 40k because of them and started an imperial guard army. But the amount of chuds that play them and the broader imperium grossed me out. Now I play chaos space marines (Red Corsairs (cause pirates) and Thousand Sons (cause I like magic and the drama)) and am gonna convert my imperial guard into chaos guard.
I completely agree, that’s why I play krieg, to show that normal people like them too.
I always kind of feel like a bad leftist because I really like playing germany in Hearts of Iron. I can’t help it that germany has a monster industrial base and democratic countries are mechanically limited. I just like my jank tank battalions and some nice relaxing map painting but no other country has the industrial base for that without also being limited by the democratic ideology mechanics or having to go through the whole process to switch ideology.
I think that’s more to do with Hearts of Iron not being fully realistic in Germany’s industrial capacity. All the memes and myths about them make them out to be far more capable than they really were in reality and HoI are matching that perception.
In reality, Germany’s success was largely due to huge risks and brinkmanship, and the Allies kept backing down and letting the Axis take bites out of them. There were many points in time where any allied response would have wiped out the German military, particularly their invasions Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland. On top of that, all of the Axis had military doctrines based on fast, intense, and most importantly short campaigns where they could soly rely on stockpiles.
Once the Axis achieved some (admittedly large) successes, they started believing they could take on the Allies in a full scale attritional war, which is what eventually ground them to dust. They could have potentially won if they kept taking small bites, but that’s not the war that was fought.
Right, in that context it wouldn’t be.
Hellsing Abridged on the topic.
Why did the guy feel the need to announce that they are, in fact, Nazis? The giant swastika is a bit of a giveaway
No, that’s just an unfortunate faux-pas
Just an autistic doodle.
The abridged series tend to go with the theme of the episode but change the dialogue significantly. SAOAbridged is great for this
One would think there are “dead giveaways”.
But apparently pulling a Nazi salute on stage at a presidential inauguration doesn’t seem to be one. Can anyone explain why?
Libel suits will hit anyone who claims someone is a nazi who is not claiming to be one.
Yeah but even if there’s some initial confusion, most normal people will get to a clear negative answer pretty quickly.
That’s true. But I’d definitely also want to know what prompted the question
it’s a warhammer 40k group.
There’s a 50/50 chance they’re neonazis. (ask if they ever play as Imperium… that’s a solid way to find out.)
We were talking generally
Same with Fallout fans who are oddly obsessed with The Brotherhood of Steel.
Or Caesar’s Legion as that is much more clearly fascistic. The BoS can be but they are malleable depending on the game. Fallout Lore is remarkably inconsistent.
Enclave is probably more accurate
Caesar’s Legion is the most accurate
I wrote a brotherhood pin in high school. But that was before fallout 3 was released when the brotherhood were essentially militaristic hermits.
The Brotherhood has been authoritian racist tech bros since FO1, with most of their expanded lore coming out of Tactics long before FO3 was even a concept. Their goals were to take technology (that they didn’t even understand) to keep it out of the wrong hands, while also eliminating any non-humans they encounter. They grew in rank by essentially running protection rackets and straight up conscripting wastelanders into slavery.
They are portrayed this way right from the get go, you just have to actually do some digging and read their holotapes to find out how bad they really are in the first two games if you didn’t get the hint from your first encounter with them where they literally send you to a giant irrated hole in the ground, expecting you to die as a way of saying “get lost and go fuck yourself.”
Bethesda tried to make them less evil and less stupid in 3.
I kind of ignore tactics and I think I made my actual distain of them pretty clear. The problem was fallout 3 making them into the good guys. They never were. My pin was as tongue in cheek as the naming of the primary fan site at the time “no mutants allowed.”
If you know anything about 40K, the prompt should be self-evident
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
The setting here feels similar.
Of course setting, their actions and whatnot matter. It isn’t out of nowhere if there’s some context for it that the recipient also understands.
In 40k where the Imperium are outright fascists, the context is already there
Yes
Isn’t that just roleplay, though? Don’t know much about 40k, but I imagine someone’s got to be the bad guys, right?
Every faction is the bad guys, it’s individuals (or sub groups like the salamanders) within the fiction that get to rise above their faction and be good guys.
The very premise is “everything is fucked up, trapped in the low equilibrium of the Prisoner’s dilemma where no faction can genuinely rise above because the others will take advantage”. The Imperium of Man, aka Catholic Space Nazis, are part of that. Other parts are the “Torture like your life depends on it, because it does” Dark Elves, the “If I stop fighting and slaughtering, I get a terrible headache” World Eaters, the “we infect people with brainwashing worms so they sabotage planetary defenses before calling our massive murderbug army to devour all life” Tyranids and plenty more pleasantries.
But the players don’t share the values of the faction the pretty plastic pieces they play with represent. Well, most of them. But if you uncritically adopt the “Kill all mutants, human supremacy, fanatical devotion to a single autocrat” mentality of the Imperium…
(Good guys, by some definition, exist, but they’re usually just good when compared to their peers, not to our moralic values. Lobotomised cyborg slaves and casual speciesism are still par for the course even for those good guys.)
what do you look for in their responses?
surely they dont go „oh yeah we are nazis, you got us“
It’s not about “getting someone”. The concerts are in clubs that have a zero tolerance. If there’s a Nazi band on the stage shit will hit the fan. This may range from other bands refusing to play in the same stage to people attacking each other.
You get usually two kind of responses: People are pretty clear in their response: “Of course not” or “Fuck Nazis” are the usual replies here.
Then there are others who get offended or try to discuss what Nazi means. That’s a “yes” in disguise and enough to not book them.
This is the answer right here.