Both can exist.
Yeah that’s the point - the two pictures show two types of people who both exist.
Yeah, and isn’t the series as a whole about her trying to go from A to B?
To me this is the right answer. Both always exist. I think people’s propensity to believe the oppressed will definitely pick up arms in the face of oppression are kidding themselves.
Leftists are deluding themselves.
Just like I deluded myself that there was no way Trump could win a second term.
Deluding themselves about what exactly?
(this is only directed at the people who seem to have wanted Trump to win to “accelerate” the ushering in of a socialist society):
Deluding themselves about how often there isn’t a glorious revolution, and ongoing, armed resistance by the oppressed isn’t guaranteed.
Accelerationists have a weird hard-on for revolution, as if it’s easy-peasy to dismantle and replace all institutions all at once.
This socialist thinks we ought to fight tooth and nail via disruption/extra legal actions, implied threats of the power of the masses (in the same mould that workers won rights by threat), AND ideally within the system itself.
Because revolution is a roll of the dice.
Yes. Make them explain their words. Deluding how, exactly? Deluded that women would fight for their bodily autonomy? That doesn’t seem very delusional to me.
The percentage of white women voting from Trump says otherwise.
This may not come as a shock, but not all women are white women. Even they would come around eventually.
Deluded ourselves that Americans have a spine?
You might be right, but I think better of my countrymen.
The second amendment was to defend Americans from tyranny. Trump is that. Use of force in self defense is justified.
“The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, the cartridge box. Use them in that order.”
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment
Tl;Dr the Constitutional Congress didn’t really believe in citizen militias providing a sufficient check on federal power. Some power, sure, but by and large the British armies destroyed the militias in the field, with only a few notable successes.
They did, however, recognize that they could serve as a rapid reaction force for wars against natives and putting down slave revolts until the real army showed up. And, of course, militias could be rolled into a professional army and retrained, like what happened with the Civil War.
That isn’t to say a genuinely popular revolt wouldn’t work, it’s just not what the 2nd was really about.
Oh I know, but I just want Trump and his fascists dead.
I am saving this.
It’s going to be less of an argument after the US readopts slave labor but knock yourself out!
For the US to readopt slavery, wouldn’t it have to give slavery up first? The thirteenth amendment specifically allows for the enslavement of prisoners. That’s a big part of the reason we put so many blacks in prison.
That’s fair, but there’s at least some difference between chattel slavery and the prison industrial complex. If the traditionally inclined right wing “libertarian” voices that are the sorts of folks the Heritage Foundation hires have their way chattel slavery is back on the menu.
They’ll just make a whole lot of stuff illegal, selectively enforce those laws, and BOOM increase the prison slave population. Hell, the South did it after the Civil War to get it’s slave labor back, how hard would it be to do nationwide now.
… you’ve just described America as it is. The legal concept of loitering is exactly what you described and it’s so old you thought it was always around.
The US has openly practiced slavery for its entire history. Private slavery at that. Nationwide, with full support from all political parties in power.
The US has the largest slave population in the world. One of the largest in world history. That was before Trump.
The second amendment was to defend Americans from tyranny.
Oh, give it a break.
2A legalized colonialist white supremacist violence against slave rebellions and native peoples. That’s it.
If it actually happened, I would happily support it. The system is working as it is intended by those with the money to manipulate it. It needs to come down.
I just don’t believe enough people really give a shit anymore.
They fucking re-elected him. We know who he is, what the GoP really is. And they still fucking elected him.
Because there wasn’t a real difference between trump and Harris. Those excited for Harris just voted for Trump.
Sounds like projection, doesn’t it?
leftists very much believed trump could win a second term primarily because neoliberals would drop the ball during the election. we were warning liberals all year.
The majority of women are libs. It was the majority of women that voted Trump. They’re not going to do anything.
To be clear: The majority of women voted for Harris. The majority of white women voted for trump. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls
Fair enough but 45% is nearly half. It my not be the majority but my point is Trump is WIDELY supported by women.
- A lot of them abstained due to the dems failing to do anything on the state level.
- A lot of them who voted just thought the Project 2025 was there to make the libs cry, and no human would be evil enough to execute them all.
Also a lot of Trump voters in the swing states are already regretting, if it continues, it can very well lead to a civil war, especially if Project 2025 will be executed. Who knows, maybe even the military will have issues with it.
maybe even the military will have issues with it.
As individuals that can vote, sure.
As a whole-ass army… maybe? They’ll have an issue with it if ordered to do anything unconstitutional. The tricky bit is what the individual leader(s) in the military think about any such order. An additional complication is how the Supreme Court may or may not weigh in, as their responsibility is to interpret the constitution.
It’s both. Most people have no appetite or aptitude for political violence.
Until they eventually do
Aptitude is only discovered by doing, and most people don’t do a violence. So who knows how many savants are out there.
Who knows! But I do reject the claim that you can’t be a leftist unless you engage in political violence.
This is a very old controversy in Marxist circles, and it has been known to result in people getting shot. Make of that what you will.
As a Redneck who pulls most of his ideology from pre Marxism labor movements I propose we have those who do not fight smuggle, craft, feed, and heal.
Sooooo… better start learning the words to Bella Ciao huh?
No, the Internationale!
With respect to The Internationale, that’s just not a banger like Bella Ciao is. If I’m thinking of ‘let’s oppose a fascist regime and/or do some Operation Gladio shit in 1970’s Italy while carrying submachineguns, dressed in leather jackets and balaclavas’, Bella Ciao is a much more appropriate choice for a modern era.
A lot of the versions of The Internationale that I’ve heard sound more like school plays. It’s not something one would describe as ‘rousing’.
Disagree. Watch Reds.
Did you say “do Gladio shit”? Like enlist fascists, virulent anti-communists that they are, to carry out terrorist attacks against civilian populations to then blame on communists in order to crush the influence of socialists in government and justify purges of socialists and communists from every sphere of life? That gladio shit?
The revolution will not be won by beautiful dead, tears in their eyes, clutching their rifles. It will be won by a political revolution of the working class for the benefit of all. There will certainly be fighting, of which the internationale sings about explicitly:
No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we’ll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They’ll break ranks and fight no more.
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We’ll shoot the generals on our own side.
So headscarves no matter what. Got it.
The difference is, they choose the balaclava.
I think the balaclava chooses them.
On Monday, I was a liberal. On Wednesday, I became a leftist. I will not let my country slide into fascism without fighting back. I have a 73 year old mom who’s married to a woman. That woman is one of the most important people in my life. I’m 51 and have known her since I was 19. If anyone comes for them, there will be bloodshed.
❤️
Same here. I have a lot of people I care about in my life in the LGBTQ+ community. I’m armed and ready.
Since you’re a new Leftist, I think you might be interested in my Read Theory, Darn it! introduction to Marxism reading list targeting new leftists. Let me know what you think if you check it out! Getting armed is a good first step, the next is to read theory and get organized with your fellow comrades!
Not a new leftist myself, but I very much appreciate the post, and love what you’re doing. Plus, that gives me a couple more books to read. Cheers!
welcome welcome.
Solidarity, comrade.
Subscribe to this channel and join us!
Lmao, aren’t guns too dangerous for y’all?
For leftists? I think you should read some history lol
And here I thought the left wanted more gun control, since it seems to be so important to them
LOL. many of us practice and own guns, we just don’t make it our entire personality.
I’m not talking about that, and ffs loosened gun regulation was one of the biggest agendas of the Trump campaign… not so much for the Democrats of took a 180 approach
That’s because your media is lying to you about who the left is.
Not really, I mostly base my views on my experience on lemmy
It was. But there’s a social contract being violated, here.
Also, the guys in the photo above? their rights to own guns were tramped out by that notorious liberal pinko commie Ronald Reagan, because as it turns out, they aren’t for the freedom to bear arms, just the freedom for people they like and feel are on their side to bear arms.
If the Panthers started up again, you can bet all the second-amendment types would be begging for gun control in five minutes.
You are mistaken about who wants gun control.
The left should have taken that tune before Trump
Marx said that in 1850 lol
Keep thinking that.
Honestly I think the idea that we’re anti-gun is projection by right-wingers who are anti-gun because they want police and government to have more control. They won’t admit it though because they believe that they should have guns to fight against us, but if they beat us, I guarantee they’d show their anti-gun side more prominently.
I will
Man being unironically Anti-gun is so cringe. Like really if you’re anti-gun you almost certainly believe that people shouldn’t be allowed to defend themselves and therefore should instead rely solely on the police for their own protection, because that’s who you’ll rely on now if you can’t defend yourself.
Good point. It’s like keyboard justice warriors ranting about racism compared to actual BLM marchers.
BLM marches and activism happened all over the world because of “keyboard warriors” spreading the word.
srsly taking credit? wow
ITT: People who think “liberal” means any one single thing.
ITT: People who think “leftist” means any one single thing.
“Liberal” can mean centrism, capitalism with a human face, capitalism with some socially progressive elements, etc.
“Leftist” can be anything from “liberal” (as the far-right likes to pretend left=evil), to any form of actual leftism, which also can range from libertarians to authoritarians, with the latter sometimes weirdly being pushed a lot by the right (Fidesz, the Hungarian far-right party masquerading as “moderate, center-right, christian democrats”, have paid off the election debts of Munkáspárt 2006, and now they’re one of their satellites).
I mostly upvoted the meme for the energy.
Yeah you have no clue that women actually side with capitalism all day every day
40% of voting women support trump
Y’all are delusional
40% of voting women support trump
Necessarily that means most voting women did not vote Trump.
Except the fact that the women supporting maga is more likely to be gun nuts than the women supporting harris. They also have the military in control once Jan 20 comes.
We ain’t winning. They will massacre us. The US will have its own Tiannamen Square.
That’s a great point, women go by guns. An unarmed leftist is a vulnerable leftist.
I just want women to feel happy and realized without fear of oppression or the need to partake in political violence, but what the fuck do I know.
I just want my “Thoughts and Prayers” to materialize without any effort.
I feel that way about everyone.
Yep
Unfortunately we don’t get to live in that reality
I agree that women are not going back “into the bottle” as it were. There definitely are females out there opposed to women’s rights (especially reproductive and career rights). They will be opposed by a greater number of women + the men who want women to meaningfully participate in society. A nation that refuses to take women seriously ends up cutting their potential leadership, ideas, production, and so on basically in half. Already we see women planning how they are going to resist misogynistic policies, and maybe they don’t need my support as a Canadian man but they’ve got it.
FEEEEEEMALES!!!
? Is that a trigger word for you or something?
Dude, like. No. Stop digging.
I have no idea what’s going on with either of your responses (digging into what exactly?), but ok.
There definitely are females out there
The use of “females” here is objectifying, and generally frowned upon. Here’s a way to avoid this mistake in the future: replace “females” with the word “people” and if it works grammatically and in the context of what you’re saying (eg, you’re not talking about animals) then you should be using “women” instead of “females.”
Thank you for clarifying, I appreciate it. I didn’t know that, but I’m not going to stop using the word “female” for reasons I put in another post just above.
I’m not telling you to stop using the word altogether, just trying to help you understand why some uses are inappropriate and will garner ire from others. It’s fine if you want to say “well that’s their problem” but alternatively you could try to have some empathy. Broadly speaking, being considerate of others rarely requires anything of you, and helps make the world a better place.
But if that’s asking too much, I understand.
Edit to add: this applies to the usage of “males” and “females” equally. By continuing to use this terms inappropriately, you’re not somehow promoting equality, you’re just being stubborn about using hurtful language.
“Thanks for explaining why using this word in that way is problematic and makes the people it is attempting to describe uncomfortable, but I don’t actually give a shit and will continue to use it regardless” 🙄
I’ll bite. Referring to women as “females” is usually used by incels. Women, ladies, those are your safer bets.
Well, thank you for clarifying at least. I’m not changing the wording. Let me be clear, I’m definitely not blaming you for being helpful - I appreciate at least knowing. However, if someone reads my post supporting and valuing women and the thing they comment on is the word “female” as if that makes me an incel misogynist, then I don’t really care. I wrote a post in this thread about the radicalization of men, and I used the word “male” 4 times. 31 upvotes, no downvotes (at time of posting) and no one had issue with “male”.
If I get downvoted for it so be it. I support women and I never ever use the actually pejorative terms, but I’m not stopping using the word female. Incels use the word “women” too all the time btw. There’s even the famous coffee meme that uses the word “women” and I hate it because I’m a gamer and it’s always used in gamer communities to mock women.
coffee meme?
I’m a gamer
Yeah, saw that one coming.
Anyway, you can say “female” as an adjective all day. It’s the noun that has really icky nonhuman connotations.
Your moral high ground eroded when you vociferously said it was everyone else who was wrong about the current connotation of the word.
Liberal and leftist are both very vague terms with several definitions that place them both in very different places in the political spectrum.
You should just use other, clearer terms.
These terms are rather well understood by leftists, it’s only liberals who think they mean the same thing.
No, conservatives think that. Liberal doesn’t mean what leftists desperately want it to mean; neoliberal
Conservatives, liberals, and neoliberals are all just subtypes of the classical liberal.
You forgot progressives, too.
What is so vague about them?
They seem perfectly clear-cut to me.
Some people think liberal is right-wing, just not extreme (for example, liberal party of Quebec)
Some people think liberal is centrist. (For example, liberal party of Canada)
Some people think liberal is some sort of wide category including everyone left of center.
As for leftist, some people think it means anything left of center.
Others think it means left-wing, but more so than center-left.
Others yet think it refers only to the most left-wing of political opinions, including communists, anarcho-communists, and adjacent ideologies.
And even “center” is a vague term to begin with. What passes as center in the US is decidedly right-wing in other countries.
Some people think liberal is right-wing, just not extreme
What can possibly be more extreme than being pro-capitalist? Even a fascist can be made to admit that there is more to water than merely it’s market value.
And even “center” is a vague term to begin with.
That’s the whole point of “centrism” - vagueness. You can hide all kinds of right-wing garbage under “centrism.”
I see leftist as Revolutionary. The resistance. Quite honestly, I loved nazi hunter stories growing up and stories of the resistance movements and operations to smuggle the vulnerable to safety. I will be a part of it this time around.
