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- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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… Ranlar slowly rises from his wheelchair before collapsing under his own weight as his atrophied legs give out. Your party must now find a way to move him away from the orcs without using his newly healed legs, perhaps on a nearby chair with wheels.
I cast heal on Ranlar’s legs
I cast heal on my muscles to make them stronger than they were before, since I guess that’s how it works now?
I do wonder about using it post-workout. Best version of juice ever?
I have wondered about using it post… Other things. Do healing spells reduce your refractory period? Could someone get Ed Greenwood to weigh in on this?
I think the refractory period is a hormone response and not tissue damage/fatigue. It could be ‘healed’ in a similar way horniness, PMS, pregnancy, tiredness (but not the need for sleep), hunger, and moods can be ‘healed’.
It could also be a peripheral autonomic feedback response, in which case it could be ‘healed’ in a similar way to suppressing automatic breathing, bowel movements, automatic reflexes, and possibly the fine tuning of balance.
Such a spell could porobably exist, alongside a suite of other weird spells that were likely developed first, like Calm Emotions or unnamed but almost guaranteed to exist contraceptive spells. Some debuff spells of a unique variety could be quite interesting too, with breathing suppression being the rare effect that would require an intelligence save.
A potion would probably be the cheaper option though; plain old erection juice should suffice.
You cast on your muscle? Guess what I cast it on
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So if I want to be a proper butthole I need to cast lesser or greater restoration?
I don’t know, but i would say you can’t restore anything since his legs never worked. This is more like a deck of many things situation
Do people actually roleplay as cripples? I thought that was just some dumb joke.
This is like an episode of House.
House: “I roll for perception”
Wilson: “You rolled a 1”
House: “It’s Lupus”
This thread has helped my understanding why new players I meet to are so intimidated by the game. It seems many people favor strict rule following over just having a good time.
This is the kind of petty squabbling that makes dnd for me 🤌
“The social model of disability states-”
“PELOR SAYS RUN, BITCH, THERE’S A MONSTERS”
I’m amazed he managed to roll a nat 20 on a d8, thats cheating on a whole new level
I fuckin hate this notion in modern dnd (which is a misconception in the first place) that its just “let a d20 decide: the game”. That’s not how the game has ever been played. If you wanna have goofy mad-lib games with your friends where you just roll dice and laugh that’s fine but you’ve never, in 50 years, had to roll to see if you’re able to cast Cure Wounds or Heal.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
didn’t dnd 2e have you roll a d20 if you cast while wearing armor? too low of a roll and the cast fails? No crit effects, just simple pass/fail, right?
Pathfinder has that too, so it presumably carried through 3.5e. It’s why wizards don’t wear armor, and only applies to arcane casters, and classes that are meant to wear some armor like bards get exemptions for the tiers of armor they’re meant to wear.
Casting an Arcane Spell in Armor: A character who casts an arcane spell while wearing armor must usually make an arcane spell failure check. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table 6–6 is the percentage chance that the spell fails and is ruined. If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure.
https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=361
It was a rule in Pathfinder, so presumably it was a rule in 3e.
I wish my DM would accept this. I was born with this power but I might fail to cast it? Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Octodad: Pen&Paper edition?
QWOP tabletop edition
Shadowdark has d20 rolls for spellcasting and by all accounts it’s fantastic. If you succeed the roll you cast the spell and expend no resources. If you fail you can’t cast the spell for the rest of the day. I don’t believe for a second that it’s what the OP in this post was playing though.
I guess since in many cases you do actually need to roll a dice, like when peeforming a touch or ranged touch spell, people just assume it always happens. And even in this case. Cure wounds is a spell like any other and it is subject to a will saving throw. So to be correct the pc that was targeted by the spell would indeed roll in order to save from the unintended heal - but thats really just assuming the spell could be used like this, which in my interpretation it cannot. So again, even if the caster rolls no dice in this case, the target could. I think this leads to people thinking there must always be a roll.
Will isn’t an attribute/stat in dnd 5e and the only roll one would make for cure wounds is the amount of healing applied.
Thats not what I said.
Never played 5e but in 3.5e the target of the spell - not the spellcaster - can roll a dice. The target can perform a will save to reduce healing amount by half.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
Like in warhammer fantasy, where a guy i’ve played with managed to cast one spell during a fight that took 30-60 mins irl
Everyone’s correctly pointing out how healing doesn’t with that way, how about changing someone’s body against their will being totally evil and not good?
It would depend on the god. A god of strength or perfection would see anything that makes you stronger as a good thing.
I have a character idea for a cleric that idolizes the god of pain.
They focus almost entirely on healing because you can’t keep suffering if you’re dead, if you’re alive you can grow stronger, and therefore, in their own twisted mind, if you’re suffering you’re growing stronger.
They don’t heal people right away unless not doing so would cause them to die and end their suffering. Instead, if the battle is over, they pull out a chart and start asking about how painful the wound is. This can be excruciating for the one who has to sit there and answer questions until they get healed.
The other portion of their build would focus on fighting the undead because they are abominations who cannot feel pain and cannot grow stronger because of it
The god goes along with it because their normal clerics may be into torture, which is great for pain, but they tend to get hunted down because of their extreme methods. This cleric causes pain indirectly by being surrounded by a bunch of murderhobos.
Fits pretty well for a grave cleric. They perform best when healing from the brink of death. Spare the dying becomes more like study the dying lol
Everyone’s correctly pointing out how healing doesn’t with that way
Keep in mind that they never specified the game system
That spell doesn’t require a d20. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Going beyond the spell usecase might call for a d20 tho
I once ran a campaign based on Fred Saberhagen’s books of swords. I’m the books there are twelve swords that would be considered greater artifacts. One of my players was playing a pacifist. He picked up the sword called Townsaver while his village was being invaded. Anyone who has read the books knows this same situation happens right at the beginning of the series. The sword takes over, because it’s power is to force anyone who holds it to protect unarmed innocents. He proceeded to slaughter the invading force. He was devastated.
Holy shit, that sparked a memory. I read some of them back in the early nineties.
It’s worth reading the whole series of you’re interested. They aren’t awesome, but they are fairly quick reads, and the way he resolves the story is interesting.
Alright, you cast heal wounds. Any wounds on the legs are healed. You are now aware that paralysis from birth is not a “wound”
Yeah that’s more regenerate or maybe power word heals territory.
It’s explicitly within the capabilities of a Lesser Restoration, but also I would not allow a player to cast that spell on another player if that other player didn’t want it
Edit: also as another person said, the adult who has never used their legs before never learned how to walk, so even if they had functioning legs, it would not help
Even with regenerate, what exactly are you regenerating? If the necessary neural pathways for the legs to work never developed in the first place, they couldn’t be “regenerated”. If this was your goal I think you might need to true polymorph a guy into “the same guy but his legs work”
Simulacra and Clone, or Greater Restoration should be able to achieve the desired effect, provided a competent heal check.
“You touch a creature and stimulate its natural healing ability.”
If stem cells could solve the issue, it’s possible. Turn it into a surgery, high DC medicine check, or an insane arcana check and a DM would probably let it play.
I don’t think logic applies to healing magic in DnD lol.
Is logic not the role of the DM?
I think it would probably require greater restoration.
Also, regenerate would definitely work you would just have to cut his legs off first.
You couldn’t “restore” something to a state it’s never been in. Cutting off the legs and then casting regenerate would “regenerate” the lost pair of paralyzed legs.
Greater Restoration ends a “debilitating effect” pretty sure most DMs would allow a 5th level spell to cure paralysis.
“Your nerves are forged anew, and your legs are as strong as a marathon runner’s. Unfortunately you never learned to walk, much less run. Good luck.”
Fair enough
Player: “I do something to Eric’s character against his will.”
A good DM: “No, you don’t.”
End of discussion.
Eric just needed a better backstory for his wheelchair-bound character. And really in most high fantasy settings the only way it makes sense to have a permanent disability like that would be from a curse.
You’re assuming there are enough >2nd level casters around to cast Lesser Restoration (or whatever the equivalent is in your campaign). As far as I’m concerned, magic should be extraordinarily rare. Does every preacher get cleric powers? Does everyone with draconic ancestry get sorcerer powers? Can anyone with an instrument kill a commoner with an insult?
In my campaigns, very few NPCs are even 1st level in a class. Maybe one in every 20 villages has a 1st level cleric in their church. It takes a 130 IQ to even start learning to be a wizard. Basically everyone can trace some line back to a dragon in their family tree, but maybe 0.001% ever get strong enough powers to even cast a Light cantrip
In Pathfinder, magic is common enough that either your village or the next will have a healer capable of that powerful of a heal spell. The only catch is that the casting costs about a year’s worth of wages for a peasant
Where do the casting costs come from? Are they reagents for the spell?
The levels in D&D represent adventuring levels, so your average person wouldn’t have any adventuring abilities unless they’ve done something to earn experience. And magic will be as rare as the deities in your setting want it to be since they can basically just give magic to anyone. Hell, some powerful beings even grant magic and powers to their subjects against their wills.
Your words are poorly chosen. This is a very low effort response.
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Not usually MC but sometimes even MC
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Name 3
Toph from avatar: eyes
Conan the Barbarians from Discworld: teeth
Gimli from Lord of the Rings: height
Cohen the barbarian. And he gets by just fine eating his schoup before he gets dentures made from diamond.
So you couldn’t list any off the top of your head and had to rely on a list made by someone else. You’re really just proving my point here
- I wasn’t the person you asked to name 3.
- Heaven forbid I contribute to the conversation by providing a relevant list to a discussion.
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
Go read a few ravenloft, forgotten realms, dragonlance, or other dnd series
Go read some raymond e feist riftwar/magician books.
Go read a dozen palladium Rifts worldbooks
Just read any large fantasy franchise and you find any number of disabled characters
Damn near every healing spell in a fantasy ttrp will have a ruling on not being able to heal natural conditions such as blindness or simply that it straight up wont restore lost limbs
Im sure catti bri and drizzt ran into a few pirates and sailors with missing limbs
Or are you going to tell me theres no peg legs in fantasy?
No old heroes who cant fight anymore because they lost a limb
Ita inaccurate because most fantasy worlds that ive read dont have mid to high level healers in every square km of their worlds
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
You clearly don’t understand h9w things work.
You made the claim. Therefore you have to provide sources to back up your claim
Only if i care to convince you, i dont
So fucking true. There are so many insufferable people on the internet that view any form of communication as a formal debate.
Trying to think of some in dragonlance. Nope. None. Unless you count one page wonders that don’t even matter.
I refused the heal because I heard it causes autism.
Yes, Int is my dump stat, why do you ask?
I will never understand these people. Like, even if vaccines did cause autism… do you really find us that offensive?
Hehe, indeed. Although they moved onto “vaccines put microchips in you to let Bill Gates control you” so who knows. (Side note, autistic people are chill, significantly less likely to ruin my night with bullshit, lol)
No no no, you got it all wrong The vaccines put microchips in you so that Bill Gates can activate COVID in you. But it works only when you’re within 5G radio range
A 20 does not mean the spell achieves something out of its capabilities, what is this five year olds playing DnD?
nor can you make another player do something they don’t want
The rules and scenarios do that all the time lol
What gave you that idea? Games make other players do stuff they don’t want all the time.
Yes, but in table top unless you signed up for a PvP game, other players don’t get to dictate how your character is. And even the DM shouldn’t railroad.
D&D is ultimately a set of rules to guide a group improv storytelling session. One of the first rules of improv is “yes and” so you go with it within the confines of the game rules as well as what people are comfortable with. This is where /u/[email protected]’s suggestion of “Ranlar slowly rises from his wheelchair before collapsing under his own weight as his atrophied legs give out. Your party must now find a way to move him away from the orcs without using his newly healed legs, perhaps on a nearby chair with wheels.” Fits so well. It "yes and"s the spell while remaining true to the other player’s wishes.
The DMs job is to maintain the fun for the players, and if one player is ruining others fun they need to be spoken with and kicked out if they aren’t able to be a team player. Personally, I treat a NAT20 (and critical failures) as an opportunity to do something comical that helps advance the story and improve the lore, because that creates the moments you tell to others when sharing fun stories about D&D
Honestly, as a DM, when this doesn’t infringe on other player’s fun like here I don’t mind doing extraordinary stuff for the Nat 20
I have had players make persuasion checks against me before when they want to do something that’s explicitly outside the rules but I think it would be cool. Depending on how cool I think it would be, the DC can be anywhere from 10 to 20, and the player doesn’t have proficiency
That’s another good idea ! I want to create an environment that incentivizes player creativity soo this could be fun :)
Taking away someone’s intentional, roleplayed disability definitely falls under “infringing on someone’s fun”, though. If the player (not just the character) is also disabled and trying to represent themselves in the game, this goes beyond infringing on fun straight into lowkey offensive. I would never let this nat 20 work. Maybe it fixes the wheelchair or something.
Main issue is the wheelchair itself. No adventurer would ever use a wheelchair, the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps. Magic carpets exist and are cheap in game and don’t make you a liability.
How do you know he doesn’t put it on a floating disk?
Then it is no longer a wheelchair, it’s a magical floating chair which is acceptable.
The wheels don’t just vanish lol
I mean, have you considered a dwarven wheelchair made from the shields of the fallen, using their frames for wheels that grant comparable protection while gaining grip compared with a wooden spoke?
Or a druidic wheelchair of entire roots that bonded to the druid when they were mortally wounded on the forest, bonding them permanently?
Or a warlock who walks with an artificial leg of miasma and lurching tentacles that his patron restored him to in exchange for his soul debt?
Literally no reason and no way a wheelchair in game is more a liability than some geriatric old fucking wozard breaking his hip or your characters having a concussion and needing an EMT.
I find it odd that there is tons of room to make a wheel chair work in the game but not the spell.
It’s a shared adventure, I’d let lots of things fly for the sake of fun and interest.
If I cast “Greater Restoration” and say I’m going to cure your of your Warlock pact, and roll a nat 20, and you are vehemently against this, it’s not “for the sake of fun” if I go ahead and “cure” you of your chosen character traits and path.
I hear you, and I’m not rigid in spell use within reason, but this is well outside just RAW and more into the latter part of everyone having fun at the table. Your fun shouldn’t come at the expense of another player having to give up agency over their character, which are personal avatars people can sometimes be quite attached to.
If you’re in a table where characters are dying left and right maybe they aren’t. But even then, if they don’t want it, that’s the red line. Just like using Mind Control on a party member to do something unspeakable. RAW could they? Sure. But unless this is a game built on betrayals or where players are expecting a PvP element, absolutely not. Because the IRL consequences of this and the real anger a player at the table may feel trump mechanics.
Everything in moderation, everything on balance. Player agency is something you should try not to let other players trample on. And even as a DM, it should be subtle or not at all when you are moving the scenery to guide something. Again, subjective.
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Though better than the alternative it would still be terrible on any uphill.
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Roots bonding to the lower body would not form a wheelchair, more like darth maul spider legs.
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That’s a leg, not a wheelchair.
In every scenario, using any magic would circumvent the disability in a way that ends up mimicking walking while not being a liability.
Yes.
That is wheelchairs and prosthetics do my friend.
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Why do people think this? Like, I’m not mad at you, just amazed at how common this belief is.
Wheelchairs were around, and in use on surfaces that were abysmal in comparison to modern ones, but they worked.
Whether or not an adventurer would use one is a different issue, but folks really don’t know shit about wheelchairs it seems.
I’m not saying it would be fun, or easy, but I’ve been out in the woods on paths barely wide enough to fit a chair, and had people, my patients, push themselves the entire way, lumps, ruts, rocks, roots and all. And rubber tires aren’t magic for that. They help, but they don’t make the impossible possible, just the edge cases easier.
Because this is a FANTASY WORLD with MAGIC and BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
Quoting you
… the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps.
That is not about the fantasy world, unless ada means All Drow Associated or something, though why drow would mandate ramps, I have no idea. Maybe because spiders don’t like steps?
So your fantasy world has asphalt roads and uniform sidewalks and paved connections between every village? If your 99.9% of dnd games you are playing in the mideaval era world with magic. So just use the fucking magic items.
If I’m DM I’d say they cast the spell exceptionally well and… it does nothing. They can do something very well that doesn’t do anything special.
I believe they were saying that this is a situation where it does infringe on other player’s fun
“Fixers” are fucking annoying in any roleplay experience, I don’t know what drives them to it but they never seem to get that it’s not like, it’s not like actually being crippled.
Yeah, if someone at the table wants certain attributes for their character, the DM should not allow others to mess with that without very good reason. This guy being a dick about it? He can find another table.
