Mormon leaders, military veterans and elected officials reacted with anger to a new Department of Defense policy that does not consider The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be a Christian religion as part of a wider effort to cut down the U.S. military’s list of recognized faiths.
“The Pentagon’s decision to list The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints apart from other Christian faiths is wrong and needs to be corrected,” Republican Rep. Mike Kennedy, of heavily Mormon Utah, wrote on X on Sunday.
They’re not Christian, lol. Too funny.
I mean they literally aren’t, it’s like saying Muslims are Christian because they view Jesus as a prophet along with Muhammed.
They made up their own fan fiction for Christianity. Someone needs to let them know their fanfic isn’t canon.
Not defending Mormonism here, but is Christianity not just Judaism fanfic? And is Judaism not a fanfic of earlier religions?
No point in talking about “canon” regarding religion, it’s just stories
How is believing jesus christ is the only son of god and dying for mans sins not Christian? I have never understood the ignorance behind LDS not being Christian. Literally every version of Christianity has it’s own fanfic bullshit built in, that’s why there’re hundreds of denominations and not one
I’m ex-mormon. They firmly consider themselves christian. They believe in Christ as a savior who died for our sins, etc etc, where a lot of sects considered non-christian see him as a prophet, not a savior/divine entity. There are a lot of arguments about the trinity and if considering christ a separate being still counts, but in the simplest sense, they kinda are christian. The bar shifts depending on who you ask though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity The section on the trinity is an interesting read.
Though I should make it clear, I don’t believe in any god. It’s all wishful thinking to me.
Personally, I think the whole heavenly father and heavenly mother being Mormons from a different planet as well as the lack of belief in the Trinity thing makes mormonism fundamentally different then “old and new testament only” Christianity.
But on the other hand, they can call themselves what ever they want, it doesn’t make their cult correct or their god real.
They literally are Christian, which is the belief in Jesus as the son of God. Full stop. Any other definition is intentionally designed by certain Christians to delegitimize other versions of Christianity.
The biblical canon was determined by several committees hundreds of years after Christianity was founded, and only explicitly formalized for Catholics in 1545! Heck the canon is STILL not fully agreed upon in Christian denominations. It’s clearly a terrible indicator for what defines a Christian.
Moreover, just because one religion decided to add to that canon does not inherently stop them from being Christian. It’s ALL made up, a little extra bullshit doesn’t make it any different.
Christians arguing about definitions and who should have the power to impose their pet view 🍿
The Son of God who is fully one with God Himself, the second person of the Trinity, which is one God in three persons.
A ton of the earliest writings in the church were dealing with explaining the Trinity, and nearly every time for the first several hundred years that the Christian church found it important enough to get together and publicly denounce someone as a heretic, it was because of denying some part of that equation (either the Trinity itself, or Jesus as fully God, or Jesus as fully God and one with God the Father). The LDS chucks it out in favor of their own weird “nah, actually everyone’s kinda a god, that’s what’s up with Jesus.” A history dive on “begotten, not made” and the Nicene Creed is helpful here, comparing it with LDS doctrine on the nature of Jesus and on the end times.
That makes them heretics to orthodox Christianity (for denying that Jesus is not “one with the Father”, all homousia) for a similar reason to why Islam views Christians as heretics (because Islam views the Trinity as an assertion of multiple gods, counter to “Allah is one”).
A lot of people see a sort of “X derived from Y” and assume based on lack of any further digging that X and Y are interchangeable, when the very derivation from should call to attention that there was a fork in the road where beliefs diverged. Some of those forks are more divergent from one another than others; Presbyterians and Baptists have more in common than Presbyterians and Catholics, and those two groups themselves have more in common than Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, and still Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have much more in common than LDS and any Christian denomination you could pick from a hat.
You cannot pretend orthodox Christianity is all of Christianity. That’s ridiculous.
I don’t have to. The Christian church formalized it in 325AD. Joey Smith just wasn’t creative enough to come up with a new heresy. He moved too quick to “okay so let’s do multiple wives and also since my wife is objecting to that God says she’s no longer a prophet and is actually a false shepherd” when he should’ve been doing his homework to make his con more credible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
EDIT: I think maybe you’re confused? I’m not asserting that the uppercase-O Orthodox Church is all of Christianity. I’m using the normal plain meaning of “orthodox”, which is “adhering to the fundamental principles held to be true by a religious group.” All Christians believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity and is fully God, because that’s what Christian means, in the same way that I can assert that all watercraft are things that can travel in water. The LDS faith is not Christian because their
cult leaderprophet decided stupidly to pick the defining trait of Christianity as a thing he wanted to change.So you mean eastern orthodox?
Because the roman catholic changed the nicene creed around 1000 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
The Nicene Creed is NOT the definition of Christianity.
There have always (and I mean always) been sects of Christianity that reject core points in that. Even the most cursory delves into religious history makes that painfully obvious.
If the best you’ve got is “the globally-accepted definition of Christianity that was agreed upon immediately after its founding millennia ago by the closest adherents of Christianity, and was formally codified within the first couple hundred years only so as to explicitly name disagreement with this definition as specifically not being Christianity, and which was only ever disputed in mid-1800s Utah by a random dude who wanted to legitimize his brand-new polygamy cult by pretending it’s part of Christianity is not the definition of Christianity”
…I don’t think you’re in as strong a position as you seem to think.
Please, even a brief cursory search proves that Mormons aren’t the only Christians that denounce the Nicene Creed. If you aren’t even willing to do a simple Wikipedia search to verify your facts, this conversation isn’t worth continuing. Have a good day!
I mean, in their canon, Jesus visited America right? Is it the same Jesus, fundamentally?
Yes, Jesus, son of God, born to the Virgin Mary, died on the cross, resurrected. Then only AFTER his resurrection he was supposed to have visited the Americas very briefly.
It’s basically equivalent to Jesus appearing to Saul rather than his secret vacation in America.
I mean, not that there’s any evidence at all for anything in the Book of Mormon (quite the contrary) but that’s not the part that would be incompatible canonically.
i vaguely remember him. played outfield for the giants and astros, right?
No, no…he’s the one who came back and kept a low profile as a record sales clerk, only to be eventually recognized then subsequently whisked up in his sudden stardom.
Nope. I mean the name is there, but this is so easily traced to the grift that one has to really do some mental gymnastics to say it’s even a religion much less a Christian one.
How often did Jesus teach about how dark skin was a curse from God?
The bible was a building block to the grift of Smith, that is all.
You’re twisting definitions. “Religion” is a widely applicable term, and just because somebody is doing something bad with a religion doesn’t invalidate its taxonomy.
No I am not twisting definitions. I am saying it’s easy to see that this one has nothing to do with the religious premise it jumped on and everything to do with grift.
They might all be grifts, but this one is explicitly easy to see that they just jumped someone else’s train. And therefore it is nothing to do with the other various sects.
Way more often than mainstream Christianity wants to admit. It’s literally the root of white supremacy…but that’s not a popular subject among the modern Christians.
I would love for you to quote some scripture backing that up
Start here and scroll down to the Christianity subtitle. It starts with the curse of Cain. I was taught this growing up, and it’s the basis of white Christians sidelining brown and black people within the church. Also, remembering that Christianity is a white religion that was pushed on slaves in America…and then sidelined outside of it by the same damn people!
The scripture itself does not in any way imply that the mark of Cain was dark skin and your link doesn’t argue otherwise.
It is/was a commonly held belief among Christians for quite some time, and the link explains that and which scripture it derived from.
Yeah, so did I. Jesus never said anything about the mark of cain.
Correct. It’s in Genesis. The common mistake a lot of Christian apologists make is to simply dismiss the Old Testament unless it serves them (gay references).
Tell Disney. Jesus is a Marvel property, he’s met Howard the Duck. The Mouse takes IP infringement very seriously.
As if Christianity itself wasn’t a hugely retconned Jewish fic
Who copied their homework from the Phoenicians.
They believe in salvation through Christ though so…
They believe that Jesus was God Himself (not another god, or a dude who became a god, but the one God Himself) who came down to die so that humanity could, depending on Christus Victor or Penal Substitutionary Atonement, either be saved from the cursing effects of death or else have their sins atoned?
Or do they instead believe that Jesus, an entirely-separate god that the God and some other “Divine Mother” gave birth to, died to pave a path to becoming a god yourself?
Mormons don’t believe in the Trinity doctrine.
Neither do Unitarians.
Both got cut by Evangelical Pete.
He almost certainly holds them to be heretics.
Its probably not all the extra fan fiction… its probably the heresy… vast majority of self identified Christians in the world belong to some kind of a Church or Sect or Denomination that holds to the Trinity.
I mean, I want to hold Trinity, too
isn’t each abrahamic religion just a sequel to the previous one that’s been written by new authors?
Like I can accept that the bible is kind of a mess due to it being written so long ago that historical record of the whole thing is fractured, but generally, it’s accepted that a figure named Jesus probably did exist, even if he wasn’t really the son of God. Through all the translations and lost languages and lost history, mainline Christianity has a pretty good excuse that even if the stories aren’t actually true, they’re rooted in social folktales that were generally accepted as true in early Christian theology, in a time period that was much much much much more superstitious than the modern era.
Whereas, come the fuck on, Jesus visiting America is made up whole cloth in a semi-modern era by a guy who should have known the fuck better. That’s not a social folktale, that’s just one single motherfucker making shit up on his own and calling it good.
lol, I see. you’re willing to entertain the whole zombie jesus story but the book of mormon is ridiculous and impossible.
honestly who even cares? I’m sure this will get corrected by hegseth because the lds have been loyal and obedient to trump and the republicans in power are only pretending to be christians.
I’m not willing to entertain the zombie jesus story, I just recognize that one has actual history behind it and that early human civilization history helps explain it and that nothing explains this dumbfuck just making shit up.
But the Islamic religion is not derived from Christianity, while re LSD is
Actually LSD is derived from lysergic acid. LDS is derived from Christianity though.
LSD was derived by Albert Hoffmann and has nothing to do with an imaginary sky daddy,
LSD is derived from an obvious scam. And very stupid one at that.
Like every religion. How is LDS somehow worse than your regular “satan told me” or “I am going to heaven” christian nonsense? It’s a completely arbitrary distinction. If those folks consider themselves christians, or followers of Christ, who is entitled to deny their identity as such?
It’s not, they are all equally ridiculous, some more so.
Sure
Literally everyone else on the planet has that right. You could even say it is a God given right if you wish.
And why is that?
Huh… No. Literally no.
They took an already silly thing, which at least had the benefit of being so far removed in time it leaves space for doubt about what it claims, and then piled a bunch of complete utter nonsense on top of it.
And worse of all, utter nonsense created by a con artist who couldn’t even keep his own story straight, like when the original “translation” of the text only he could translate (lol) was hidden from him, he just made up a completely different one because of course he did, he was a con artist.
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